[Benedict Broere]

Well, I think I stressed the science-bit to hard. To me it is science and worldviews that give me the material for considaring the TOE. Postmodernism is a worldview, logical positivism is a worldview, there are lots of worldviews. This TOE needs to explain all that. How and why they come to be. What there is behind, underneath, what order maybe. But then I would like to refer to what I said in the 'Variation is the key'-thread.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie

Hey Guille, don't be so hard on Husserl___we wouldn't know how stupid Wittgenstein was without him...

regards

Very true. But he condemed us philosophers, metaphysicians, logicists, praxists... Not to Hell, which would be final and fatal and total. The totalitarian metaphysics was Heidegger with his hermeneutics. But his teacher condemed us to the pulgatory, were we will relly until we have suffered all of what we have to pay back. And all that suffering is represented by Deconstruction, by postmodernism. It might go to worse, or, if we are prepeared, we will achieve the heavens of wisdom.

Originally Posted by Benedict Broere

Well, I think I stressed the science-bit to hard. To me it is science and worldviews that give me the material for considaring the TOE. Postmodernism is a worldview, logical positivism is a worldview, there are lots of worldviews. This TOE needs to explain all that. How and why they come to be. What there is behind, underneath, what order maybe. But then I would like to refer to what I said in the 'Variation is the key'-thread.

Science is also a worldview. Only that it is (or at least it's practioners believe) 'empirical', if we are as ignorant as to use such a wrong term to denote a wrong idea about a wrong discourse. Now I read this post I understand for the first time what is for you a TOE; it is not from exact sciences but from social sciences, it is the philosophy of culture and the science of culture, what you practice, for the first explains the why and the second explains the how, about the ideas formed in our world. Not about their relation to the world though, true?

[Benedict Broere]

No. Read what I say in the thread 'Variation is the key'.
And science is not a worldview. It is directed by worldview, but in itself it is something different. A moslim and a hindu can very well agree on the effect of the Laws of Newton. Also an atheist and a theist can. Worldview is beyond science. Still worldview can be object of science, at least we can investigate the brain that is the source of worldview. And of culture, human expression in general. Science investigates parts of the researchable, it doesn't generate a view on the world in general.

[Guille]

Originally Posted by Benedict Broere

No. Read what I say in the thread 'Variation is the key'.
And science is not a worldview. It is directed by worldview, but in itself it is something different. A moslim and a hindu can very well agree on the effect of the Laws of Newton. Also an atheist and a theist can. Worldview is beyond science. Still worldview can be object of science, at least we can investigate the brain that is the source of worldview. And of culture, human expression in general. Science investigates parts of the researchable, it doesn't generate a view on the world in general.

Why did you say that your aim with achieving a TOE is to understand the how and why of the formation of worldviews if you tell me that my interpretation was wrong? Sometimes it is better to think whether saying something will be better than silence.

You've misunderstood what I meant by saying that science is a worldview. First of all, you must read postmodern philosophy to understand that not all philosophy is worldview, that now that, due to Husserl, philosophy and science have merged, bonded, and they borrow tools from each other. Only the modernist idea of philosophy creates worldviews. Not even the classical, that is, the Greek, did that; they philosophized differently to modern and to postmodern thought. Philosophy talked of the being, and as it was too hard some invented science, soy they could treat the manifestations of the being instead of the no-go of the being itself. There was the duality of metaphysical and logical thought, but now we've lost them both. I don't know were we are going, that is preciselly the aim of all solitary thinker as me; to become a visionary, a 'posthomous man' as Nietzsche described himself.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Originally Posted by <<<GUILLE>>>

Very true. But he condemed us philosophers, metaphysicians, logicists, praxists... Not to Hell, which would be final and fatal and total. The totalitarian metaphysics was Heidegger with his hermeneutics. But his teacher condemed us to the pulgatory, were we will relly until we have suffered all of what we have to pay back. And all that suffering is represented by Deconstruction, by postmodernism. It might go to worse, or, if we are prepeared, we will achieve the heavens of wisdom.

Ah yes Guille, just as you have stated, "if we are prepared, we will achieve the heavens of wisdom." This must be the outcome, as any other scenario is the end of the human race, and I believe that course isn't open to us... Here, I invoke Subersions' "Law of Positivity..."

regards

"Humanity can screw up a lot, but the quantum fixes it." me

[Benedict Broere]

Guille,
I think we understand 'worldview' differently. To me 'worldview' means any interpretation of the world in general. Starting with the hunter-gatherer people generated hundreds of worldviews. These worldviews can be investigated, their source, the brain, can be investigated. Any pattern we find in this way, can be connected with order we find in this world via science in general. Thus we can work our way towards a TOE.

[humanbydefault]

Metaphysics is for physics and philosophy what alchemy once represented for chemistry. Terms change but the spirit of searching for our origins and final destination is eternal [it will end with the end of our own race].
This is a usefull link to those interested in knowing the origins of what we call today "metaphysics."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics

I have a very personal opinion about those "paranormal" phenomena too. I believe that those who consider spirituality and non-corporeal existence without the previous inclusion of the physical reality in the roll of "source" are nothing but "spiritual-reductionists."
You could be a reductionist in physics and biology as well as in the field of spirituality. A HOLISTIC approach to those terms posted in the title of this thread are nothing without the previous presence of those who made those phenomena possible in the first place.
Allow me to illustrate my point with an example:
Before Jesus there was no christian faith. Without Einstein relativity would have been probably discovered by someone else but the consequences of the delay could have been a complete disaster to modern physics as well.
Our civilization and the philosophical pillars upon all the human knowledge has been built have an individual link to those who promoted the change.
Those people had their own roots, their own historical context and their own views about life, God and the universe. Mysticism and ignorance have always walk hand by hand and I hope you'll agre with me on this...
In fact the reason we haven't given up on those "branches" of our human nature is because we have an instinct that makes us unique: The curiosity to know more (!)
There is an inscription on Hilbert's tomb that I think resume our spirit of quest. The following words can be read in the final resting place of the most brilliant mathematicians of all times:
"We must know, we will know"
I don't know if we will achieve such accomplishement one day but the spirit is always there and it is an integral part of us. I'd say that it has been written in our DNAs from day one.
A can't divorce body from spirit... I know many won't agree with me on this but I do believe in the bottom of my soul that this is real expresion of holism including not just science but spirituality as well.

HUMANBYDEFAULT

Last minute note... As long as we keep them and their work in our books, our memories and our teachings they won't be forgotten. It is the act of remembering something or someone what brings part of our own history to life once again.

[Benedict Broere]

I think it has to do with survival. Our curiosity is one of the factors that determine that we still excist. I also think this curiosity is related with the curiosity out of wich this world excists. At least to me this world came up in invention and amazement, and with a curious looking beyond every corner of new being.

[meg-al]

Tell us about your black belt and how it fits between the Para... & Meta...

[meg-al]

How does one get out and beyond the dialectical banter of tinker thoughts? Leadership in any science requires a quantum leap out of the mere verbal aquarium ~ imagine a squid rubbing his giant eye with one of his numerous appendages, philosophizing to the whale that, come to think of it, he should have kept his legs and arms originally intact because now that land critters have conquered their primordeal sea he doesn't have a fin to stand on. And for all his tentacles Mr Squid never had the forethought to evolve a pair of lungs. To change the subject a mite more... have any of you come across the paranormal metaphysics of the Raelians who believe in acting on belief; and not just on contemplating the crease wherein their third eye may have been?