Determinism or Free Will?

[mkirkpatrick]

Oh damn, I feel so attacked constantly. I'm so damn sorry, don't worry it was bull anyway.

I just have this feeling of injustice when someone started to make me ridiculous here; I feel so terrible about it. When I reacted I even lost another star which made me feel even more ridiculous and treated even less honest.

I just lose my control when it happens, sorry I can't help it; it's so strong, it's just stronger than me; If someone does that to me, I could just crush them.

It's so unfair; I hate it, all the hate in me gets out of me, and I can't control it...
It's too deep, I can't resist it. I can't stand public insult.

That's okay David,we are still friends I hope,no harm done.

take care my friend.

regards michael.

[David Maes]

Some people are weaker, some people are stronger.

You're the stronger, I'm the weaker.

I would talk against war in the world, and I can't even control my own war.

I'm a bad example.

[David Maes]

But I'm under the impression you activated me. Am I right? If so, why?

Why would you want me to say things I wouldn't want to say to you? (if so).

[mkirkpatrick]

Some people are weaker, some people are stronger.

You're the stronger, I'm the weaker.

I would talk against war in the world, and I can't even control my own war.

I'm a bad example; that's a fact.

We are what we are David,if you think you are strong then you will be.however it works
the other way as well,so if you think you are weak,then you will be!

Let us leave it here my friend,and return to the thread theme.

warm regards michael.

[David Maes]

Yes, let's do it (just apologizing).

[David Maes]

Logic can't explain war.

Of course, this does not mean war has to be approved.

[everymansmedium]

Hello Friends:
I voted other:
Free will is the freedom to calculate how best to achieve (survival/continue)
The future does not exist. The past is but a record of the events of the ever present NOW.
We have our imagination that is the mutable possibilities of our creation. Once we act the creation is made at the point of creation the ever present NOW. This creation that we have made, once it is made can never be unmade. It can be covered and hidden but it can never be unmade. It is the being the observer that creates the time at the point of creation now. Always at the center of the universe. This time once created in turn creates space. This is also obvious. It is because of time that two objects can exist in the same space for the time has created new space.

Continue is the constant that makes it possible to see life as the result of a force.
It is apparent.
It is constant.
To see life as the result of a force makes a conversion of force possible as the result of the presents of life and being as the observer.

Because of the constant continue at the basis of life, so then life can result with time as the constant continue indicates. From this is generated space as is always the result of time.

It all comes from within. We as an individual are but a single dimensional trail of time. But the collective of all life is the 3 dimensional trail of time that can create all of the 3 dimensional space we can experience.
Also the consciousness is not a single point but at every conceivable point. There are the universes of all the possibilities and of all of the choices that could be made. Everything is there nothing is ever lost. Including every choice that we NEVER made. One day maybe we can examine these possibilities.
We do not need to travel in time to do it. For it is all recorded in Elsewhen. In the strings of space that exist as single dimensional space. There is however 3 dimensional time. Within this 3 dimensional time is
Each of our single strands. These single strands of space that are formatted with the events in time when the space was created are the soul for every living thing. They are as long as the universe. To follow is to again experience the lives that you lived. This is the eternal existence that we make for ourselves by the life that we lead today. Your soul is the world you create while you live here, to exist within for eternity when you leave.
John

[Boyscout]

Hello Friends:
I voted other:
Free will is the freedom to calculate how best to achieve (survival/continue)
The future does not exist. The past is but a record of the events of the ever present NOW.
We have our imagination that is the mutable possibilities of our creation. Once we act the creation is made at the point of creation the ever present NOW. This creation that we have made, once it is made can never be unmade. It can be covered and hidden but it can never be unmade. It is the being the observer that creates the time at the point of creation now. Always at the center of the universe. This time once created in turn creates space. This is also obvious. It is because of time that two objects can exist in the same space for the time has created new space.

Continue is the constant that makes it possible to see life as the result of a force.
It is apparent.
It is constant.
To see life as the result of a force makes a conversion of force possible as the result of the presents of life and being as the observer.

Because of the constant continue at the basis of life, so then life can result with time as the constant continue indicates. From this is generated space as is always the result of time.

It all comes from within. We as an individual are but a single dimensional trail of time. But the collective of all life is the 3 dimensional trail of time that can create all of the 3 dimensional space we can experience.
Also the consciousness is not a single point but at every conceivable point. There are the universes of all the possibilities and of all of the choices that could be made. Everything is there nothing is ever lost. Including every choice that we NEVER made. One day maybe we can examine these possibilities.
We do not need to travel in time to do it. For it is all recorded in Elsewhen. In the strings of space that exist as single dimensional space. There is however 3 dimensional time. Within this 3 dimensional time is
Each of our single strands. These single strands of space that are formatted with the events in time when the space was created are the soul for every living thing. They are as long as the universe. To follow is to again experience the lives that you lived. This is the eternal existence that we make for ourselves by the life that we lead today. Your soul is the world you create while you live here, to exist within for eternity when you leave.
John

The future does exist. I understand what youre saying, but it is alot like saying that subtraction doesn't exist, and that only adding negatives does. The future is defined as the time yet to come, and as long as there is time to come there is a future. I very much like what you said though, and you put my thoughts into better words than i could have. I applaud you sir.

[Nickola Tesla]

One of the questions we discussed in the last chat session was whether the universe is determined, fix, caused always, or there are events not caused, or free actions, or randomness. I give here a list of the five main theories about this problem, so that you can vote the one that you agree with in the poll. If you do not agree with any or have one of yours, vote other, please.

Hard Determinism: A hard determinist believes that the past completely determines the future. Since all future events are caused by past events, the future is causally determined. it is not within our power to shape the future. Free will is an illusion.

Indeterminism: An indeterminist denies that the past has a strong effect on the future. According to indeterminism, at least some events in the future are not caused by events in the past. The future is somewhat random and unpredictable. This avoids the threat of determinism.

Soft Determinism: A soft determinist holds that we can have free will even if the future is determined. We are free and responsible for our actions as long as these actions are caused in the right way. We can distinguish two different forms of soft determinism;

Traditional Compatibilism: A traditional compatibilist holds that actions are free if and only if: a. They are caused by the will of the agent. b. They are not forced.

Deep Self-Compatibilism: A deep self-combatibilist holds that actions are free if they are caused by desires that are truly our own (authentic desires).

Libertarianism: A libertarian insists that human beings are agents and that agents have special causal powers. They can initiate (cause) events on their own account and are therefore free to shape the future.

I will post the arguments in favor and against each of these theories in future posts. The poll doesn't have mutiple choice, but if you have a mixture of several theories, vote other and explain, or vote the one which is more central. Votes are public. I hope this thread gives a lot to think about to each of you, and good luck (or I should say “have a good determined time”?). For further readings, wikipages about philosophy and "The BIG Questions" by Nils Ch. Rauhut, the best introductory book to philosophical problems ever.

I vote libertarianism no doubt at least once you get past the autotomic reactions.

[austintorn@aol.com]

All I can say is that the opposite of 'determined' is 'undetermined', random even, and while it's fine for natural selection to use or not, I don't see how it would get human action to make any sense.