[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Great idea... so a reaction to a reaction will weaken the initial force and hence Gravity is a weak force. Now how do we mathematically prove it??

Hello Dipayankar:
The energy will only get weaker if it is being dispersed in more than one direction. If the action / reaction is a single trail of events the reaction will equal the action. The only thing that can be said of this is that it is possible that we are not seeing the total force because of undetected dispersal.

This is why the thought of the creation of space is also interesting as we do not know that a force is required to initiate the creation of space and that gravity might be a reaction to that. It does seem logical to me to feel that creation of a space field requires force. Then also the consideration that the field that is space also represents force. Then gravity might simply be the reaction to the creation of the space field.

There are many that say that space is nothing. To them I say, if it is nothing then how is it expanding. My feeling is that it is a 3 dimensional field, and that a force is required to generate this field. This thought applies as well to time. Then the field is a bipole, and results with a space field as one pole and a time field as the result of the other. If it is a field, then a force is required to generate both of these fields. Then gravity is a reaction to mass within the space field, and the initial force is that which generated the space field itself.

This led me to think about this creation of space as a natural phenomena that is part also of a duality. Wherein the reverse of creation takes place at the event horizon as the redshift where the edge of the universe travels beyond our ability to detect it, then returns at now to become the space that appears to be created new at the point of creation NOW. Then also the same takes place with the matter that is lost to come back to be spit out of a black hole in a stream that travels across much space. These thoughts do not seem to have a logical trail that can be followed throughout the cycle that I indicate. However everything in this universe seems to be focused on the observer. The observer is always at the center. The observation in quantum physics has its effect to alter the outcome of events. This thought that the observer is a source of action on the environment fills the need to see this cycle of space and matter to take place at our event horizons where observation is not possible. Is this the leap of faith that is required to understand our universe?
If it is then we can begin to talk about the membrane that is the space and time field loop that you find talked about on my site.
http://unit-unity-community.com
John

[dipayankar]

Hi John,

As a scientific novice, can I ask two questions?

1) Which is this energy that creates space?
2) Is the law of censervation of energy followed here? If yes, which form of energy is converted?

Originally Posted by everymansmedium Hello Dipayankar: The energy will only get weaker if it is being dispersed in more than one direction. If the action / reaction is a single trail of events the reaction will equal the action. The only thing that can be said of this is that it is possible that we are not seeing the total force because of undetected dispersal. This is why the thought of the creation of space is also interesting as we do not know that a force is required to initiate the creation of space and that gravity might be a reaction to that. It does seem logical to me to feel that creation of a space field requires force. Then also the consideration that the field that is space also represents force. Then gravity might simply be the reaction to the creation of the space field. There are many that say that space is nothing. To them I say, if it is nothing then how is it expanding. My feeling is that it is a 3 dimensional field, and that a force is required to generate this field. This thought applies as well to time. Then the field is a bipole, and results with a space field as one pole and a time field as the result of the other. If it is a field, then a force is required to generate both of these fields. Then gravity is a reaction to mass within the space field, and the initial force is that which generated the space field itself. This led me to think about this creation of space as a natural phenomena that is part also of a duality. Wherein the reverse of creation takes place at the event horizon as the redshift where the edge of the universe travels beyond our ability to detect it, then returns at now to become the space that appears to be created new at the point of creation NOW. Then also the same takes place with the matter that is lost to come back to be spit out of a black hole in a stream that travels across much space. These thoughts do not seem to have a logical trail that can be followed throughout the cycle that I indicate. However everything in this universe seems to be focused on the observer. The observer is always at the center. The observation in quantum physics has its effect to alter the outcome of events. This thought that the observer is a source of action on the environment fills the need to see this cycle of space and matter to take place at our event horizons where observation is not possible. Is this the leap of faith that is required to understand our universe? If it is then we can begin to talk about the membrane that is the space and time field loop that you find talked about on my site. http://unit-unity-community.com John

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by dipayankar Hi John, As a scientific novice, can I ask two questions? 1) Which is this energy that creates space? 2) Is the law of censervation of energy followed here? If yes, which form of energy is converted?

Hi Dipayankar:
First, we are all novice. There are no mentors. There are only those that wish you to think they are masters. There are some of us that have been at this quest a bit longer than others. However that may only be the result of being here on this place a bit longer.

Yes the conservation of energy is served. The initial source of all energy would be that force that is the generator of the 2 primary fields time and space. The primary source of all energy that we have access to would then be the 2 initial fields space and time. It may be that we do not have access to the total of either of these fields. They may extend beyond our reach to other places of existence. If this is the case it might appear that energy at time comes from a zero point, when truly it may be from the very same time or space field that is simply beyond our event horizon. We know that an event horizon is the end of our ability to perceive. We can not say that it is the end of these fields.

The force that you and many others seem so interested in, gravity is likely the result of the existence of mass in the space field, and is a result of the space field. Yes that is the reverse of saying that space and time are the result of gravity. This is indicating that gravity is the result and reaction to the existence of mass within a space field.

Then also the existence of life and being is a result of the constant continue that is the result of the existence of life and being within the time field.

Both of the above can be considered to be an initial cause of a chain of cause and effect. This also is a bit different as it indicates that a being or life can be an initial cause.

The other forces are likely to be reactions that are the results of matter within the space or time fields. NOTE: The results of matter is not the same as the results of mass.

The effects of mass and the 2 primary fields are mutiversal.
(effective across the complete multiverse-multiversal)

The effects of matter is contained as universal.
(effective across one existence medium only-universal)

Yes I am aware that I am way out on this limb. I am however confident as
I have been here for many years and it appears to be getting stronger.
It has answers to questions that can not be answered by any other method,
it also has answers to coincidental parallel concepts that have appeared all through out mans history. There are more coincidental thoughts than random occurrence can account for. My faith in probability is my reason. It will take some time to see the coincidences that I have seen.
John.

[dipayankar]

No really I am a novice. I do not even have a formal scientific education. But would this force not be a victim of entropy and slowly peter out which would stop creating time and space??

Originally Posted by everymansmedium Hi Dipayankar: First, we are all novice. There are no mentors. There are only those that wish you to think they are masters. There are some of us that have been at this quest a bit longer than others. However that may only be the result of being here on this place a bit longer. Yes the conservation of energy is served. The initial source of all energy would be that force that is the generator of the 2 primary fields time and space. The primary source of all energy that we have access to would then be the 2 initial fields space and time. It may be that we do not have access to the total of either of these fields. They may extend beyond our reach to other places of existence. If this is the case it might appear that energy at time comes from a zero point, when truly it may be from the very same time or space field that is simply beyond our event horizon. We know that an event horizon is the end of our ability to perceive. We can not say that it is the end of these fields. The force that you and many others seem so interested in, gravity is likely the result of the existence of mass in the space field, and is a result of the space field. Yes that is the reverse of saying that space and time are the result of gravity. This is indicating that gravity is the result and reaction to the existence of mass within a space field. Then also the existence of life and being is a result of the constant continue that is the result of the existence of life and being within the time field. Both of the above can be considered to be an initial cause of a chain of cause and effect. This also is a bit different as it indicates that a being or life can be an initial cause. The other forces are likely to be reactions that are the results of matter within the space or time fields. NOTE: The results of matter is not the same as the results of mass. The effects of mass and the 2 primary fields are mutiversal. (effective across the complete multiverse-multiversal) The effects of matter is contained as universal. (effective across one existence medium only-universal) Yes I am aware that I am way out on this limb. I am however confident as I have been here for many years and it appears to be getting stronger. It has answers to questions that can not be answered by any other method, it also has answers to coincidental parallel concepts that have appeared all through out mans history. There are more coincidental thoughts than random occurrence can account for. My faith in probability is my reason. It will take some time to see the coincidences that I have seen. John.

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by dipayankar No really I am a novice. I do not even have a formal scientific education. But would this force not be a victim of entropy and slowly peter out which would stop creating time and space??

Hello Dipayankar:
When you learn how to learn, everyday is a school day. I could not afford to go to MIT when I wanted to, so I went to the MIT coop and bought all the books that was relative to the material that I wanted. Some of these I bought from students as second hand. I also spent time at the Harvard coop. I spent time in both of their libraries. At Harvard I had a friend that helped. At MIT you just walk in (the endless corridor on Massachusetts Ave) and go to the library, no body will bother you. I took square dancing classes there at the student center that cost me 4 dollars per week. This gave me a badge to wear. I still go square dancing every Tuesday night and every other Friday. Whenever you find you get stumped with a question, there is always somebody that you can ask. Now it would be so easy because of the internet. Everyday is still a school day. I am glad I learned how to do what I did.

About entropy: Entropy is the spreading out and dispersal of energy. It has nothing to do with a force.
Besides that, If you are talking about the force that is responsible for the space field, where would it spread out to. There is no way for anything to disperse beyond space itself. There is nothing beyond space.
If anybody has reason to call me wrong, be my guest. But I think in this case entropy does not apply.
John.

[dipayankar]

You really had a chequered life... Isnt entropy a universal phenomenon? So how can we leave it out in this case?

Originally Posted by everymansmedium Hello Dipayankar: When you learn how to learn, everyday is a school day. I could not afford to go to MIT when I wanted to, so I went to the MIT coop and bought all the books that was relative to the material that I wanted. Some of these I bought from students as second hand. I also spent time at the Harvard coop. I spent time in both of their libraries. At Harvard I had a friend that helped. At MIT you just walk in (the endless corridor on Massachusetts Ave) and go to the library, no body will bother you. I took square dancing classes there at the student center that cost me 4 dollars per week. This gave me a badge to wear. I still go square dancing every Tuesday night and every other Friday. Whenever you find you get stumped with a question, there is always somebody that you can ask. Now it would be so easy because of the internet. Everyday is still a school day. I am glad I learned how to do what I did. About entropy: Entropy is the spreading out and dispersal of energy. It has nothing to do with a force. Besides that, If you are talking about the force that is responsible for the space field, where would it spread out to. There is no way for anything to disperse beyond space itself. There is nothing beyond space. If anybody has reason to call me wrong, be my guest. But I think in this case entropy does not apply. John.

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by dipayankar You really had a chequered life... Isnt entropy a universal phenomenon? So how can we leave it out in this case?

Hi Dipayankar:
Yes I had a very strange life. At one time I felt deprived. No longer do I feel this. I now feel lucky. For when all the rest of the students at MIT were under constant pressure to make their grades. I was not in any position to be failed out, for they did not even know that I was there, nor did they care. I could take all the time I needed to study whatever I wanted. If I had trouble with one book I would look for another that might have an explanation that I did understand. There is always students that are failing out, that wanted to sell their books. There are always people you can find to answer your questions. The trick is to learn enough to ask the right questions.

The idea of something being fundamental indicates that it is at the bottom or foundation. As in an initial cause. We do not always know what is the beginning of a trail of events or what is the foundation. We may know only that is as far back as we have been previously able to go. If we consider space and time to be the result of gravity as most believe now, it is possible to see entropy as an all encompassing action, as it causes energy to be spread out or dispersed in space.
Now if we consider a more fundamental force that results with the SPACE FIELD and the TIME FIELD. WE now have a field that is responsible for space, and its other pole responsible for time. Now this space field being the result of this force represents access to this force anywhere in space. Then you may consider gravity as the reaction to mass within this space field. Then gravity is not a force but a reaction to MASS within the space field. This indicates a force that is more fundamental than gravity. Any force that is responsible for the generation of space would be effective even outside of space if there is anything outside of space. However entropy is the spreading of energy within space. It will effect all energy within space. But how can it effect a force that can exist beyond space. This must be an unknown. This results with one of the unknown variables of this concept.

Now if this idea was thought of before the ideas that we presently observe. It would have been able to predict all the things that was predicted by the one that we presently observe. This would make it a theory and the concept of the system that we currently have would be the outside thought that can be ignored. The fact that we thought of the idea that is now predominant first is the only reason that it is the one that is accepted. This idea also indicates the presents of more variables at the source. This might make it easier to unify, than what we are now fighting with.

There is one more idea that is relative to the foundation of building blocks of our universe.
The Idea of resonance. This is a physical property that results in a fundamental frequency.
The present system indicates that resonance is the result of physical properties. What if the building blocks are strings. We do not know what the strings are made of, this also introduces a new unknown variable. The unknown variable is what the strings are made of. It however solves previous unknown variable relative to substance. It does this by indicating the frequency that is seen as the results of the physical properties of an element that is responsible for its resonant frequency is actually the frequency of the strings that make up the atoms of this element. This is indicating that the strings are more fundamental. And can be the building blocks of all matter by oscillating at the elements resonant frequency. Or even more effective at a frequency that is more fundamental that can result with a harmonic that equals the resonant frequency of the element and still have the plus and minus frequencies available for other phenomena. As you can see this becomes a creative builders paradise. The key idea here is the idea of the bottom layer is the most fundamental and is the control layer. However it seems the foundation has always left an unknown variable at the basis of all things.
John

[dipayankar]

I understand the concept that you mentioned. The only point of confusion is you mentioned a 'Force that is driving space and time' what is that force?

Originally Posted by everymansmedium Hi Dipayankar: Yes I had a very strange life. At one time I felt deprived. No longer do I feel this. I now feel lucky. For when all the rest of the students at MIT were under constant pressure to make their grades. I was not in any position to be failed out, for they did not even know that I was there, nor did they care. I could take all the time I needed to study whatever I wanted. If I had trouble with one book I would look for another that might have an explanation that I did understand. There is always students that are failing out, that wanted to sell their books. There are always people you can find to answer your questions. The trick is to learn enough to ask the right questions. The idea of something being fundamental indicates that it is at the bottom or foundation. As in an initial cause. We do not always know what is the beginning of a trail of events or what is the foundation. We may know only that is as far back as we have been previously able to go. If we consider space and time to be the result of gravity as most believe now, it is possible to see entropy as an all encompassing action, as it causes energy to be spread out or dispersed in space. Now if we consider a more fundamental force that results with the SPACE FIELD and the TIME FIELD. WE now have a field that is responsible for space, and its other pole responsible for time. Now this space field being the result of this force represents access to this force anywhere in space. Then you may consider gravity as the reaction to mass within this space field. Then gravity is not a force but a reaction to MASS within the space field. This indicates a force that is more fundamental than gravity. Any force that is responsible for the generation of space would be effective even outside of space if there is anything outside of space. However entropy is the spreading of energy within space. It will effect all energy within space. But how can it effect a force that can exist beyond space. This must be an unknown. This results with one of the unknown variables of this concept. Now if this idea was thought of before the ideas that we presently observe. It would have been able to predict all the things that was predicted by the one that we presently observe. This would make it a theory and the concept of the system that we currently have would be the outside thought that can be ignored. The fact that we thought of the idea that is now predominant first is the only reason that it is the one that is accepted. This idea also indicates the presents of more variables at the source. This might make it easier to unify, than what we are now fighting with. There is one more idea that is relative to the foundation of building blocks of our universe. The Idea of resonance. This is a physical property that results in a fundamental frequency. The present system indicates that resonance is the result of physical properties. What if the building blocks are strings. We do not know what the strings are made of, this also introduces a new unknown variable. The unknown variable is what the strings are made of. It however solves previous unknown variable relative to substance. It does this by indicating the frequency that is seen as the results of the physical properties of an element that is responsible for its resonant frequency is actually the frequency of the strings that make up the atoms of this element. This is indicating that the strings are more fundamental. And can be the building blocks of all matter by oscillating at the elements resonant frequency. Or even more effective at a frequency that is more fundamental that can result with a harmonic that equals the resonant frequency of the element and still have the plus and minus frequencies available for other phenomena. As you can see this becomes a creative builders paradise. The key idea here is the idea of the bottom layer is the most fundamental and is the control layer. However it seems the foundation has always left an unknown variable at the basis of all things. John

[everymansmedium]

Originally Posted by dipayankar I understand the concept that you mentioned. The only point of confusion is you mentioned a 'Force that is driving space and time' what is that force?

Hi Dipayankar:
That would be the one force responsible for all things. I am sure some would want to call this a divine force. Maybe Universal force or maybe multiversal force. I have been burning the midnight oil a bit. Looking at this from as many perspective as I could think about. Then tearing them all down finding fault. I think I may have come on a solution. I will not have time tonight to completely explain as I want to do this from the ground up. I do have some interesting news for you. I can tell you this about what I found. The creation of space takes place at the point of creation. As the space is created it is pushed into time toward the past by each succeeding creation. I still feel that gravity is a warping of space at any place that contains mass. Maybe as a result of the creation of space or as a result of the movement in time toward the past. There is also an explanation of what is seen as the red shift. There is also an explanation for the appearance of the acceleration of the expansion of space. I will explain these better when I am rested. I started on a paper that shows 2 possible ways to predict the effect of a dynamic 4th dimension, by looking at the way that all of the past dimensions are created. Today has been another busy day. I am once again exausted.

I hope to get some time to finish this post tomorrow
John

[dipayankar]

its fine John.. take your time. We have taken 13.7 billion years anyway..

Just wanted to know your views on the 'universal foam theory'...

Originally Posted by everymansmedium Hi Dipayankar: That would be the one force responsible for all things. I am sure some would want to call this a divine force. Maybe Universal force or maybe multiversal force. I have been burning the midnight oil a bit. Looking at this from as many perspective as I could think about. Then tearing them all down finding fault. I think I may have come on a solution. I will not have time tonight to completely explain as I want to do this from the ground up. I do have some interesting news for you. I can tell you this about what I found. The creation of space takes place at the point of creation. As the space is created it is pushed into time toward the past by each succeeding creation. I still feel that gravity is a warping of space at any place that contains mass. Maybe as a result of the creation of space or as a result of the movement in time toward the past. There is also an explanation of what is seen as the red shift. There is also an explanation for the appearance of the acceleration of the expansion of space. I will explain these better when I am rested. I started on a paper that shows 2 possible ways to predict the effect of a dynamic 4th dimension, by looking at the way that all of the past dimensions are created. Today has been another busy day. I am once again exausted. I hope to get some time to finish this post tomorrow John