It's Time To Forget Time.

[SteveA]

Hi Steve.

As you know we live in a conceptual universe, so everything is therefore constructed 'via' mental activity
ie: (labeled) so as to make sense.

First, to call the manifesting energy consciousness may work for some, but it may also be confusing when consciousness is seen as a function of the brain.

What consciousness is, cannot be said. I might come up with a few labels but it explains nothing.
This does not mean that it is something difficult.
I can also not say how an orange tastes.

Some metaphors may 'click' or not, but let's compare consciousness to electricity.
When electricity enters a fridge it manifests as coldness,
when it enters a lamp it manifests as light and through a stove it manifests as heat.

In a similar fashion, when consciousness/life goes 'via' a rose it emerges as perfume, when it goes through a brain, it manifests as mind.
To assert that consciousness emerges in a brain sounds to me as saying that music has it's source in the radio.

There may be a common source, in fact I believe there is, of this "energy", and you said it quite well - it is not at any point specifically anything - to one it may happen to be at a moment a rose, or music to another or seeing the Sun in the sky or to some alien it could an experience we couldn't begin to describe but that's mostly irrelevant as it is ones own experience of what it happens to be, as well as all the possibilities that lie behind that specific moment that really mean anything.

There's really nothing to argue over - reality is what it is, which can be seen to be full of incredible possibilities becoming real or as something that must be scarcely allocated, clung to and fought over ... or any other flavor of the rainbow - there are choices and free will exists - it's ones own growth that keep it going.

It doesn't appear there's much choice or control in the fact of growth or time - it has no specific direction it must head. We can believe it must go "straight" and watch this prove itself to be true by only looking in that direction, or we see alternatives and explore possibilities and see that, yes, it still goes "straight" but it's a "straight" line toward where the desires are fundamentally pointing and that's something that one has some control over.

The only way to recognize that is to look past "randomness" and unknowns and see how things should be, then do some quick checks on how things are and where they're going and verify whether or not all the apparent convolutions are not in fact heading toward some beautiful areas to do site seeing. Of course, in the end, the only control one has is over themself and that's likely something that can never be known completely - but then again, some things may not be particularly important ... paint it whatever way seems best - reality's not going anywhere and everything has a place)

[melanie]

You see life with your own mind through non-committal consciousness, you see the whole thing is zombies and it doesn't matter.
And you realize, the biggest zombie has been me looking out at life and trying to analyze and criticize life without knowing anything about this zombie jamboree.

__________


Fruit Tree

Fame is but a fruit tree
So very unsound.
It can never flourish
Till its stock is in the ground.
So men of fame
Can never find a way
Till time has flown
Far from their dying day.
Forgotten while you're here
Remembered for a while
A much updated ruin
From a much outdated style.

Life is but a memory
Happened long ago.
Theatre full of sadness
For a long forgotten show.
Seems so easy
Just to let it go on by
Till you stop and wonder
Why you never wondered why.

Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.
Forgotten while you're here
Remembered for a while
A much updated ruin
From a much outdated style.

Fame is but a fruit tree
So very unsound.
It can never flourish
Till its stock is in the ground.
So men of fame
Can never find a way
Till time has flown
Far from their dying day.

Fruit tree, fruit tree
No-one knows you but the rain and the air.
Don't you worry
They'll stand and stare when you're gone.

Fruit tree, fruit tree
Open your eyes to another year.
They'll all know
That you were here when you're gone.

(Nick Drake)

[Lloyd Gillespie]

We are not talking about physically measuring non physicals.

We're talking about this.....

At this moment there is 'something/no-thing' aware of the words appearing on this computer screen.
It cannot be localized, captured or described, yet it is clear and obvious.
If it is denied, there is awareness of the denial.
This 'some-thing' this 'intelligence-energy' you might say has no quality that can describe it, yet it appears as each and every quality.

This is not about physically measuring stuff, and besides who would do that, who's measuring?

Your are simply dreaming up logical inconsistencies, that are impossible of existing__Ever...

This is supercilious and fallacious thinking__Always...

It only shows a level of mental ridiculousness__though incorrigibles have been doing the same, since the dawn of time...

You offer nothing new to TQ...

'invisibles' are impossible of producing 'visibles' = Any idea or thought not physically measurable, by some physical means or sensors...

Even all subjective feelings are physically measurable as non-action fields_negative action fields_or positive action fields of such actions__They just aren't mathematically, accurately quantifiable__due to any individual being tested as to his/her possible faking abilities, i.e., can not be trusted...

[melanie]

Your are simply dreaming up logical inconsistencies, that are impossible of existing__Ever...

This is supercilious and fallacious thinking__Always...

It only shows a level of mental ridiculousness__though incorrigibles have been doing the same, since the dawn of time...

You offer nothing new to TQ...

In order to know that, one would have to be outside of consciousness.
And that ain't happening brother!

Can thoughts be 'new' ?

I have no agenda here, there is nothing new under the sun.

I'm just a message for those with ears that hear, and eyes that see.


If I only knew what my motives were? hmm,then perhaps....I'd be somebody

[SteveA]

I don't believe there are "invisibles" either, or at least even the invisibles are effectively visible if we have knowledge of them. Whether or not they can be shown to presently exist - it may be daytime, but that doesn't mean night is something that is invisible or doesn't exist.

The closest thing to something truly non-existent might be similar to an unknown, but we can even know of the existence of unknowns as well and information regarding whether something is known or unknown is also real.

If we count to 20, does that mean that 21 can't exist and then because we didn't mention 22, then 22 wouldn't exist because it hadn't been mentioned or constructed yet?

Is non-existence an oxymoron? Could we even conceive of anything that truly did not exist in any influencial manner? Even the concept of ghosts or invisible unicorns are real and influencial.

In physics a photon can't convey any information without a space in which it is not detected as well, though such a space can't be physically measured directly just as the past and future can't. The existence of space, motion, change and time arise from memory and are not physical objects. The speed of light can be defined to only be constant in a vacuum because the speed of light isn't constant and it can't be measured in a vacuum either ... no one has ever seen a photon traveling through a vacuum yet, space is a mental construction that's learned and created over time as we interact with memories of past events ... bending space and time and derive inertia/matter

We should invest a flyswatter to let some people stop being harassed by such an array of intangible and unprovable things! ... only concepts of atoms exist and not emotions, only the idea of molecules and not conscious experiences, only the mathematics behind em fields or gravity and not colors or memories etc.

Wow, isn't it amazing at how accurately some people can target "invisible" things ... I'd assume something that truly did not exist would be impossible to isolate and have a discussion about

(Oh no, there I go having fun again!!! What to do about that?)

We have ghost chasers on the forum!! Oh look someone is having an intangible thought right now! Go get 'em boys!

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Your are simply dreaming up logical inconsistencies, that are impossible of existing__Ever...

This is supercilious and fallacious thinking__Always...

It only shows a level of mental ridiculousness__though incorrigibles have been doing the same, since the dawn of time...

You offer nothing new to TQ...

[melanie]

'invisibles' are impossible of producing 'visibles' = Any idea or thought not physically measurable, by some physical means or sensors...

Even all subjective feelings are physically measurable as non-action fields_negative action fields_or positive action fields of such actions__They just aren't mathematically, accurately quantifiable__due to any individual being tested as to his/her possible faking abilities, i.e., can not be trusted...

I have a question for you Lloyd.

Is the 'you' that goes by the name Lloyd .. Conscious?

[Meem]

Is gravity ever physically measured, or just it's effects on physical objects? Gravity is spooky.

[melanie]

The invisibility is simply a fabrication of mind and sensation,

The mind and sensation is simply a fabrication of invisibility.

It's right T-here in front of your very eyes, can't you see it?

[melanie]

You offer nothing new to TQ...

Another question for you Lloyd.

Where in the heck can 'I' get 'something new' from?

what's your answer... if you have one that is?