It's Time To Forget Time.

[melanie]

"Nowness is sometimes referred to as the fourth moment. That may sound more mystical than what is meant. You have the past, present, and future, which are the three moments. Then you have something else taking place, which is called the fourth moment. The fourth moment is not a far-out or extraordinary experience as such. It is a state of experience that doesn’t even belong to now. It doesn’t belong to what might be, either. It belongs to a non-category—which provides another sense of category. Thus it is called the fourth moment. That is the state of vipashyana, or the state of non-ego. The Tibetan term for this is lhakthong dagme tokpe sherap, which means “the knowledge of egoless insight.” It is a very real experience in which nothing can be misunderstood. It is such an overwhelming experience. The experience comes at you. You experience it precisely and in great detail.

... We should also be careful when we use the term “experience” to talk about what we are experiencing or we will experience. Conventionally speaking, when we refer to a future experience, we have an idea and an expectation, some pre-warning of what we think the experience might be. Somebody tells you about it; you know roughly what it is and you prepare for it. You wait for that experience. It will come to you. You do as much as you can to prepare. You exert yourself. Then, you have the experience. In that scenario, everything is absolutely predictable.

But here, when we are talking about this experience, the experience of the fourth moment, we are not talking about a programmed predictable experience as such. We are talking purely about an experience that comes from the unconscious mind. In terms of the underlying consciousness or the unconscious, we are referring to an abstract state of mind, a state of literal thinking that doesn’t have logic formulated yet. You just have a sense of ape instinct or radar instinct.

... You feel as if you were having a cold shower, and suddenly hot, burning water starts to come out of the tap. It is so instant, so real. For a moment, when the hot water first comes at you, you still think it’s cold. Then you begin to feel that something is not quite right with that particular coldness. It begins to burn you. It is unprogrammed experience, simultaneously experiencing hot and cold water, in its own individuality.

The present is the third moment. It has a sense of presence. You might say, “I can feel your presence.” Or, “I can feel the presence of the light when it’s turned on. Now there is no darkness.” The present provides a sense of security: you know where you are. You keep your flashlight in your pocket. If you encounter darkness, you take out your flashlight and shine the light to show you where you are going. You feel enormous relief, created by that little spot of light in front of you. You don’t see the whole environment, but you feel the sense of presence and the present. The fourth moment is a state of totality. Basic awareness is taking place which doesn’t need any particular reassurance as such. It is happening. It is there. You feel the totality. You perceive not only the beam of light from the flashlight, but you see the space around you at the same time. The fourth moment is a much larger version of the third moment.

Without the experience of the fourth moment, there isn’t enough intelligence taking place. You are just accepting things naively, and that naivete may become the basis for spiritual materialism. Naivete is believing in something that doesn’t exist, which means that it becomes a sense of ignorance or stupidity. You turn on the cold shower, and you hope everything is going to be okay. You try to make sure that everything will be predictable and okay and then you just give in. You are not prepared for any reminders. Then this little twist of hot water takes place. Whenever there is a reminder, it is part of the fourth moment. If there is a reminder, everything becomes very real. If you don’t have a reminder, then you are just at the mercy of chaos, samsara. That is why the sitting practice of meditation is so important. It boils down to that."

~ Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche



"...The fourth moment, the cosmic joke of leaping to where you already are...."
~ Kasung Dapön Barry Boyce

[jag]

"Nowness is sometimes referred to as the fourth moment. That may sound more mystical than what is meant. You have the past, present, and future, which are the three moments. Then you have something else taking place, which is called the fourth moment. The fourth moment is not a far-out or extraordinary experience as such. It is a state of experience that doesn’t even belong to now. It doesn’t belong to what might be, either. It belongs to a non-category—which provides another sense of category. Thus it is called the fourth moment. That is the state of vipashyana, or the state of non-ego. The Tibetan term for this is lhakthong dagme tokpe sherap, which means “the knowledge of egoless insight.” It is a very real experience in which nothing can be misunderstood. It is such an overwhelming experience. The experience comes at you. You experience it precisely and in great detail.
[/b]

I agree that we need to forget time, as we know it, in order to know the fourth moment.

The fourth moment or fourth dimension contains the other three dimensions, not the other way around. It is timeless, unending but also finite.

4D is the perspective of God...from the infinite looking back in at finite reality..."The magic mirror gate."

3D is our past, present, future perspective looking out.

4D is a hard place to see because you have to let go of 3D time completely and hope you can make it back and remain sane.

The TOE is an understanding of 4D, not just a more complicated or complex version of 3D. It will take a leap of faith to see it from the other side.

jag

[austintorn@aol.com]

Who is God?

[melanie]

Who is God?

I don't know......... i forgot

[melanie]

I agree that we need to forget time, as we know it, in order to know the fourth moment.

The fourth moment or fourth dimension contains the other three dimensions, not the other way around. It is timeless, unending but also finite.

4D is the perspective of God...from the infinite looking back in at finite reality..."The magic mirror gate."

3D is our past, present, future perspective looking out.

4D is a hard place to see because you have to let go of 3D time completely and hope you can make it back and remain sane.

The TOE is an understanding of 4D, not just a more complicated or complex version of 3D. It will take a leap of faith to see it from the other side.

jag

Thanks for your thoughts jag.

I liked your ''magic mirror gate'' analogy

The forth moment is an idea that is sadly missed by the majority of people, as most people live in their minds.
In fact it's rarely ever known or thought about, and most people don't even know it exists, but it's real.

People live in their minds never knowing that it's not their mind....

ok....more later

[Meem]

Eye am now.
won ma eye.

hmmm, interesting.

[austintorn@aol.com]

— Shade and Sun —

CARE—a gentle old man—sits silently
By the sundial in Time’s sanctuary,
Slowly marking the hours by the shadows
That creep over the face of eternity.


— Sun and Shade —

JOY—forever young—turns toward the glow
Of the fair light that from the sun does show,
Basks in its golden beams, and spreads
Her radiance to everything that’s so.

[jag]

Who is God?

He's the one that wrote the book.

"The universal Father is not invisible because he is hiding himself away from the lowly creatures of materialistic handicaps and limited spiritual endowments. The situation rather is: " you cannot see my face, for no mortal man can see me and live." No material man could behold the spirit of God and preserve his mortal existence. The glory and the spiritual brilliance of the divine personality presence is impossible of approach by the lower groups of spirit beings or by any order of material personalities. The spiritual luminosity of the Father's personal presence is a light which no mortal man can approach; Which no material creature has seen or can see. But it is not necessary to see God with the eyes of the flesh in order to discern him by the faith-vision of the spiritualized mind."

Spiritualized mind = 4D

jag

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Every 'naked belief' is defeasible to logical impossibility...

'Naked beliefs' = All those with zero physical evidence...

Experientially 'knowing' our honest feelings is excluded...

[austintorn@aol.com]

The invisibility is simply a fabrication of mind and sensation, with umpteen more layers added on by other human mammals out of their perceived self-importance. All likely stories to protect the imaginings of the invisible during the mythical ages (which still continues).

Fantasy can be fun… but…