An Idea that became a cosmos

[austintorn@aol.com]

Sometimes it’s good to take an idea and run with it to its conclusion, disregarding the cons and just stating the pros, for then a free understanding of it can be gained. Necessarily, we must suspend any philosophy of belief analysis, for now. Mel will like this, as the idea is/was hers. None of this is anything to do with previous posts herein, just to do with, literally, the idea that made a Cosmos.

(I had to take some days off to write speeches for the political conventions. Afterwards, I asked some kids if they knew where Alaska was. One said it was near Japan and another said it was in the middle of the ocean just as the [space constrained] textooks showed it. Of course, I knew better: that it was in Canada, but I still wondered why Mccain would pick someone from a foreign country. Oh well.)

The Perfect Awareness
(of Mel’s)
Expanded

The Perfect Awareness is all there is, the only real reality. This experiential disposition underlies what we think of as physical reality. Our being is not of the stuff we think it is of but only of the occasions of experience granted by the Perfect Awareness. Anything thing we think we know about reality is only apparent, although some of it may be of the real means of the Perfect Awareness, such as our minds being of that which can tune in.

The Perfect Awareness had no beginning; it is all. It dreams our earthy existence, ours being one of its favorite channels. Anything can happen in dreams and so our endeavors are a source of novelty of being for the Perfect Awareness. While dream stuff is usually only for show, It, for the enhancement of the show, gave us a sense of being as well, making for better actions of dream characters.

The Perfect Awareness broadcasts reality all over the universe and to other beings, as well, but the Earthy soap opera has became more of a prime time show. Our every interaction, war, folly, and thoughtful creative act is, in a way, the Perfect Awareness talking to Itself, being Itself, and dealing with Itself, since It is the power behind all that is apparent.

While all is indeed an illusion, the Perfect Awareness has formed it to be not discernible from what would be real on its own. Any physical dispositions that we seem to discover beneath our reality are actually not there except as were necessary to project ‘reality’ there by the Perfect Awareness. While we do have some realness granted to our own being, it is only so much as to let us be the receivers of awareness and to have our ‘own’.

For proof, witness one’s own night dreams. These are obviously fake, their inconsistencies revealing the instability of this virtual reality. My car is never where I left it; scene backgrounds change often; when I read a page of text, the text changes when I look again; gravity doesn’t always work, since I can fly; plus I awake from it all and can then see it for what it wasn’t.

Night dreams are for our own entertainment of our own being, driven but by noise, static, memory, associations, wishes, and by the general nature of the mind to try to make sense of anything at all. Amazingly, this simulation model of reality is the same tuner used by us when we are awake, but of course then the the broadcast is one that is really coming in from the Perfect Awareness.

Although what is of our waking state is an illusion, it is an absolutely perfect one. Try as we may, there is no way to tell it from one that could be real all by itself. Chemistry, mathematics, biology, physics, and all work perfectly to the letter as they would and should if they were real‚ and naturally so since the Awareness is Perfect. All would just go ‘poof’ if not for the source of Perfect Awareness.

There is no real birth or death, since we are not real, but only the continuing being of a dream character that has been granted its own version of awareness so that it can operate more uniquely in the dream.

There is no Heaven, Hell, will, and any such, for again, we are not real, but only to be a part of the Perfect Awareness itself dreaming this life.

‘Dreaming’ is a good word to employ for this since we know what stuff dreams are made of. It’s just that the dream goes beyond that since we are part and parcel of the Perfect Awareness and thus can have lives and dreams, too, which are only seemingly real.

Aside for it all not being real as an actual happening, there is no other meaning but that which is given us to be, even though it is actually the undetectable ‘to be’.

As for it not being real, it being more of an unscripted play, it has no permanent meaning—of which fact we may take it all quite a bit more lightly, but maybe not. Suffering, although felt, is not real beyond the dream feelings, but it still hurts.

Never-the-less, all is just the way things are, and not something necessarily to be fixed or eliminated, for without the lows, there would be no contrasted feelings to let one take notice of the highs.

So, all just is, just how it should be, as this is what the Perfect Awareness does. There is nothing further to read into it.

All in all, everything of the illusion is the same as if all were real (without any particular motive), the only difference being that the Perfect Awareness is the source of the illusion rather than some real stuff just having been around and combining and evolving.

The illusion can be taken as real if one wishes to use the illusion for whatever reason. We deduce this because the plain and uninsightful wo/man would normally think that all is real anyway.

We aren’t really sure whether all is broadcast out there, for the mind to take in, or broadcast directly to the mind, for it to think is out there, or if the mind is also part of the broadcast, but these methods and such are still important to consider to bolster the belief.

Any comments, pro, con, or no matter?

[melanie]

The Perfect Awareness
(of Mel’s)
Expanded

Any comments, pro, con, or no matter?

Comments by ? NOBODY perhaps?


The difficulty for most of us in the modern world is that the old-fashioned idea of God has become incredible or implausible.
When we look through our telescopes and microscopes, or when we just look at nature, we have a problem.
Somehow the idea of God we get from the holy scriptures doesn't seem to fit the world around us, just as you wouldn't ascribe a composition by Stravinsky to Bach.
The style of God venerated in the church, mosque, or synagogue seems completely different from the style of the natural universe.
It's hard to conceive of the author of one as the author of the other.

The Self.

Underneath the superficial self, which pays attention to this and that, there is another self more really us than I.
And the more you become aware of the unknown self -- if you become aware of it -- the more you realize that it is inseparably connected with everything else that is.
You are a function of this total galaxy, bounded by the Milky Way, and this galaxy is a function of all other galaxies.
You are that vast thing that you see far, far off with great telescopes.
You look and look, and one day you are going to wake up and say, "Why, that's me!" And in knowing that, you know that you never die.
You are the eternal thing that comes and goes that appears -- now as John Jones, now as Mary Smith, now as Betty Brown -- and so it goes, forever and ever and ever.


The EGO

"Well," you ask.
"How do I get rid of it?"

And my answer to that is:
That's the wrong question.

How does one get rid of what?

You can't get rid of your hallucination of being an ego by an activity of the ego.

Sorry, but it can't be done . . .

If you try to get rid of your ego with your ego you will just end up in a vicious circle.

You'd be like somebody who worries because they worry because they worry.

[melanie]

Thank you, Melanie, I am really glad we both believe (are convinced/certain) that within science there is no overall unification.
That is the whole point I am trying to make.
I am glad you see the obviousness of it.
Scientists (many, though not all) do not see it this way;
either because they disagree with it out of hand or because they are not aware that this is vital in understanding the whole.

I find that the sensation of myself as an ego inside a bag of skin is really a hallucination.
What we really are is, first of all, the whole of our body.
And although our bodies are bounded with skin, and we can differentiate between outside and inside,
they cannot exist except in a certain kind of natural environment.
Obviously a body requires air, and the air must be within a certain temperature range.
The body also requires certain kinds of nutrition.
So in order to occur the body must be on a mild and nutritive planet
with just enough oxygen in the atmosphere spinning regularly around in a harmonious and rhythmical way near a certain kind of warm star.

That arrangement is just as essential to the existence of my body as my heart, my lungs, and my brain.
So to describe myself in a scientific way, I must also describe my surroundings,
which is a clumsy way getting around to the realization that you are the entire universe.

However we do not normally feel that way because
we have constructed in thought an abstract idea of our self.

Alan Watts.

fredrick:
And that is the beauty of it: the abstract is a nothing.
Yet even when it doesn't really exist as an apple exists in our reality, the abstract (math) is of the highest level in science.

Namaste
melanie.

[Drifter]

Quote:
Quote:
fredrick:
And that is the beauty of it: the abstract is a nothing.
Yet even when it doesn't really exist as an apple exists in our reality, the abstract (math) is of the highest level in science.

A no thing, that "in" the autistic mind, "is", Everything.

Namaste`
D.

[Drifter]

Part 3

Movement is animation. Movement is time; no movement no time (but it was was movement that came first, along with stuff that didn’t move, if any). Movement is space; radiation does not happen in space; it is space. What’s beyond space? Empty space? No, for no space is nothing, and so is not there.

What is nothing? I learned the following trick from Farsight: here’s nothing. Did you get it? Or know it in any way. Here it is again. Where? Nowhere. ‘Nothing’ has no properties whatsoever. It is only the absence of something, like a hole in space or a donut. It can be looked at as separating things, but, take away the things and it’s still nothing, that is, not there.


Now, into the labyrinth of thoughts, where one can imagine what is, and ‘know; what it is because one imagined it; some even go on to use it as if the idea were there as a thing:

Were Adam and Eve made fully formed rather than by evolution? Doesn’t seem so but in legend.

Is the Big Guy (if E is) bad, a strict father type figure, good, all good and loving, vengeful, or indifferent? Is E a theity or a Deity? Is E like a person? Is E not like a person? Who knows, for we can only imagine various ‘possibilities’?

Is the Big Guy just an Alien? Who knows?

Does E want us to get rid of ego that E put there? Who knows?

Does E want us to get rid of ego that E didn’t put there? Who knows?

Are Allah’s and Mohammed’s teachings of the right stuff?

Did Krishna get it right?

Why were dinosaurs here for 650 million years?

Is the earth only 4000 years old?

Are there Angels and a Devil, with perhaps some sub-devils?

Did the other religions’ prophets get the right scoop, one or some of them?

Should I live my life based on anything other than we are presented with?

Does martyrdom get me to a higher Heaven?

Is life a test?

Are cows sacred?

How come the Creator violated some of Hiser’s own commandments?

Do I peek into Heaven when I almost die?

Should I shun worldly possessions?

Did Somebody really send a plague of locusts?

Why do ‘forbidden’ thoughts appear in me out of the blue?

Is everything an illusion?

Is ‘faith’ another magic psychological word answer for instantly trusting the unseeable unknown as trustworthy?

(endless list of other imaginations not included here so as to conserve trees)


Further questions of humanity and our nature:

What does the above long and assorted list of ways of living and thinking tell us in and of itself? That is, why such variations of thought? And what does that imply?

Why do some humans think they are ‘special’, via an Intent, above and beyond all 30-50 million species?

What does ‘can’t know all’ suggest as a way of life?

Why does human nature cause some to stop all further thinking when the common name of the Big Guy is proclaimed as the final answer to all wonderings of what is?

Finally, but really foremost,

what is the psychological process

that goes from feeling special

to considering the ‘possible’

to a maybe

to it’s likely

to it is so

to it has these certain qualities

to it has this actual purpose

to I must preach it

to getting upset that other contrary beliefs
can flourish in the face of mine

To getting irrational,

to going to war over this
and other differences of cultures,

to even having clerics run the government and

to enforcing what one must do,

that is, the root of all evil?

Why ask Why - Things that make you go HMM?

If "C&H" Pure Cane Sugar Stands for "California & Hawaii", why does thecommercial only mention Hawaii?Do blind Eskimos have seeing-eye sled dogs?Do pediatricians play miniature golf on Wednesdays?Do Quarter Horses have only one leg?Do Roman paramedics refer to IV's as "4's"?Do you need a silencer if you are going to shoot a mime?How come 'abbreviated' is such a long word?How do they get a deer to cross at that yellow road sign?How does the guy who drives the snow plow get to work in the mornings?How many babies can a motherboard have?How many people does it take to change a searchlight bulb?If a cow laughs hard, does milk come out its nose?If a train-station is where a train stops, so what is a workstation?If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it,do the other trees make fun of it?If a word in the dictionary were mispelled, how would we know?If bulls have horns, why do they MOO instead of honk?If nothing sticks to TEFLON, how do they make TEFLON stick to the pan?If the #2 pencil is the most popular, why is it still #2?If you ate pasta and antipasta, would you still be hungry?If you were going to shoot a mime, would you use a silencer?If you're cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you see okay?Is boneless chicken considered an invertebrate?Is it OK to use my AM radio after noon?Is reading in the bathroom considered Multi-Tasking?Isn't Disney World a people trap run by a mouse?Isn't the best way to save face to keep the lower part shut?What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious?What do you suppose gives Stephen King nightmares?What is a "free" gift? Aren't all gifts free?What is the speed of dark?What's another word for synonym?What's another word for Thesaurus?When cows laugh really hard, does milk come out their nose?When you switch off the light, where do all the photons go?When you're sending someone Styrofoam, what do you pack it in? Where does the fire go when the fire goes out?Whose cruel idea was it for the word "lisp" to have an "s" in it?Why are there 5 syllables in the word "monosyllabic"?Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets anyways?Why do banks charge you a "non-sufficient funds fee"when they already know you don't have any?Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?Why do they call it the Department of Interiorwhen they are in charge of everything outdoors?Why do they sterilize needles for lethal injections?Why do we put suits in a garment bag and put garments in a suitcase?Why do we wait until a pig is dead to "cure" it?Why do you press harder on a remote-controlWhen you know the battery is dead?Why does lemon juice contain "artificial ingredients"but dishwashing liquid contains "real lemons"?Why doesn't DOS ever say "EXCELLENT command or file name"?Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?Why doesn't Tarzan have a beard?Why don't they just make mouse-flavored cat food?Why in a country of free speech, are there phone bills?Why is a carrot more orange than an orange?Why is "abbreviation" such a long word?Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

[melanie]

Sometimes it’s good to take an idea and run with it to its conclusion, disregarding the cons and just stating the pros, for then a free understanding of it can be gained. Necessarily, we must suspend any philosophy of belief analysis, for now. Mel will like this, as the idea is/was hers. None of this is anything to do with previous posts herein, just to do with, literally, the idea that made a Cosmos.

(I had to take some days off to write speeches for the political conventions. Afterwards, I asked some kids if they knew where Alaska was. One said it was near Japan and another said it was in the middle of the ocean just as the [space constrained] textooks showed it. Of course, I knew better: that it was in Canada, but I still wondered why Mccain would pick someone from a foreign country. Oh well.)

The Perfect Awareness
(of Mel’s)
Expanded

The Perfect Awareness is all there is, the only real reality. This experiential disposition underlies what we think of as physical reality. Our being is not of the stuff we think it is of but only of the occasions of experience granted by the Perfect Awareness. Anything thing we think we know about reality is only apparent, although some of it may be of the real means of the Perfect Awareness, such as our minds being of that which can tune in.

The Perfect Awareness had no beginning; it is all. It dreams our earthy existence, ours being one of its favorite channels. Anything can happen in dreams and so our endeavors are a source of novelty of being for the Perfect Awareness. While dream stuff is usually only for show, It, for the enhancement of the show, gave us a sense of being as well, making for better actions of dream characters.

The Perfect Awareness broadcasts reality all over the universe and to other beings, as well, but the Earthy soap opera has became more of a prime time show. Our every interaction, war, folly, and thoughtful creative act is, in a way, the Perfect Awareness talking to Itself, being Itself, and dealing with Itself, since It is the power behind all that is apparent.

While all is indeed an illusion, the Perfect Awareness has formed it to be not discernible from what would be real on its own. Any physical dispositions that we seem to discover beneath our reality are actually not there except as were necessary to project ‘reality’ there by the Perfect Awareness. While we do have some realness granted to our own being, it is only so much as to let us be the receivers of awareness and to have our ‘own’.

For proof, witness one’s own night dreams. These are obviously fake, their inconsistencies revealing the instability of this virtual reality. My car is never where I left it; scene backgrounds change often; when I read a page of text, the text changes when I look again; gravity doesn’t always work, since I can fly; plus I awake from it all and can then see it for what it wasn’t.

Night dreams are for our own entertainment of our own being, driven but by noise, static, memory, associations, wishes, and by the general nature of the mind to try to make sense of anything at all. Amazingly, this simulation model of reality is the same tuner used by us when we are awake, but of course then the the broadcast is one that is really coming in from the Perfect Awareness.

Although what is of our waking state is an illusion, it is an absolutely perfect one. Try as we may, there is no way to tell it from one that could be real all by itself. Chemistry, mathematics, biology, physics, and all work perfectly to the letter as they would and should if they were real‚ and naturally so since the Awareness is Perfect. All would just go ‘poof’ if not for the source of Perfect Awareness.

There is no real birth or death, since we are not real, but only the continuing being of a dream character that has been granted its own version of awareness so that it can operate more uniquely in the dream.

There is no Heaven, Hell, will, and any such, for again, we are not real, but only to be a part of the Perfect Awareness itself dreaming this life.

‘Dreaming’ is a good word to employ for this since we know what stuff dreams are made of. It’s just that the dream goes beyond that since we are part and parcel of the Perfect Awareness and thus can have lives and dreams, too, which are only seemingly real.

Aside for it all not being real as an actual happening, there is no other meaning but that which is given us to be, even though it is actually the undetectable ‘to be’.

As for it not being real, it being more of an unscripted play, it has no permanent meaning—of which fact we may take it all quite a bit more lightly, but maybe not. Suffering, although felt, is not real beyond the dream feelings, but it still hurts.

Never-the-less, all is just the way things are, and not something necessarily to be fixed or eliminated, for without the lows, there would be no contrasted feelings to let one take notice of the highs.

So, all just is, just how it should be, as this is what the Perfect Awareness does. There is nothing further to read into it.

All in all, everything of the illusion is the same as if all were real (without any particular motive), the only difference being that the Perfect Awareness is the source of the illusion rather than some real stuff just having been around and combining and evolving.

The illusion can be taken as real if one wishes to use the illusion for whatever reason. We deduce this because the plain and uninsightful wo/man would normally think that all is real anyway.

We aren’t really sure whether all is broadcast out there, for the mind to take in, or broadcast directly to the mind, for it to think is out there, or if the mind is also part of the broadcast, but these methods and such are still important to consider to bolster the belief.

Any comments, pro, con, or no matter?

SO!


It's difficult to speak about the nature of reality,because the one listening is nothing other than the belief structure that already thinks it knows what reality is.

Any comments ?

[Fredrick]

SO!


It's difficult to speak about the nature of reality,because the one listening is nothing other than the belief structure that already thinks it knows what reality is.

Any comments ?

Yes, one comment: not so fast, yuall! It's true that there is really much truth in all our words, but to get just a little bit more truth above water we do not even have to downplay each other's words and positions. All we need to do is organize our comments and thoughts just a little bit better otherwise our wise words hang still in the air without wings (and that's only possible when the inside is really hot and lighter than air).

Truths only exist within frameworks; we can dress ourselves up in various frameworks to find various truths within. There are no truths knowable without understanding the various works that frame the truth(s).

What is the framework? Really, it's a nothing. But can it be done without that nothing? No.

(Other than that, much agreement coming from my side)

[austintorn@aol.com]

"It's difficult to speak about the nature of reality, because the one listening is nothing other than the belief structure that already thinks it knows what reality is."

This is true in the case of our 'knowing' that the nature of reality is the Dreaming of the Divine Perfection and it does say then that we can't really know this, but we are going along with the thought experiment anyway to see what it brings forth.

For example, it would seem that there is no accountability for those illusions like us who are of course not real since they are of the Perfect Awareness Itself's thoughts manifesting as us and our 'reality' in Its Imagination channel.

Further, it seems that at least the apparent dream reality is stable enough to be used the same as it were real, that many would not even sense this, for it cannot be told apart from the real, and so then it seems the Perfect Awareness doesn't mind any misinterpretation or inability to do so by any of its illusional dream characters.

So then, the knowing of the illusion by some would still let them use this knowledge somehow… but how?

Any ideas on how?

Could be as simple as no worries like those that could befall real humans. For example, feelings from suffering could be somewhat mitigated by thinking "It's not real."

[Drifter]

Sometimes it’s good to take an idea and run with it to its conclusion, disregarding the cons and just stating the pros, for then a free understanding of it can be gained. Necessarily, we must suspend any philosophy of belief analysis, for now. Mel will like this, as the idea is/was hers. None of this is anything to do with previous posts herein, just to do with, literally, the idea that made a Cosmos.

(I had to take some days off to write speeches for the political conventions. Afterwards, I asked some kids if they knew where Alaska was. One said it was near Japan and another said it was in the middle of the ocean just as the [space constrained] textooks showed it. Of course, I knew better: that it was in Canada, but I still wondered why Mccain would pick someone from a foreign country. Oh well.)

The Perfect Awareness
(of Mel’s)
Expanded

The Perfect Awareness is all there is, the only real reality. This experiential disposition underlies what we think of as physical reality. Our being is not of the stuff we think it is of but only of the occasions of experience granted by the Perfect Awareness. Anything thing we think we know about reality is only apparent, although some of it may be of the real means of the Perfect Awareness, such as our minds being of that which can tune in.

The Perfect Awareness had no beginning; it is all. It dreams our earthy existence, ours being one of its favorite channels. Anything can happen in dreams and so our endeavors are a source of novelty of being for the Perfect Awareness. While dream stuff is usually only for show, It, for the enhancement of the show, gave us a sense of being as well, making for better actions of dream characters.

The Perfect Awareness broadcasts reality all over the universe and to other beings, as well, but the Earthy soap opera has became more of a prime time show. Our every interaction, war, folly, and thoughtful creative act is, in a way, the Perfect Awareness talking to Itself, being Itself, and dealing with Itself, since It is the power behind all that is apparent.

While all is indeed an illusion, the Perfect Awareness has formed it to be not discernible from what would be real on its own. Any physical dispositions that we seem to discover beneath our reality are actually not there except as were necessary to project ‘reality’ there by the Perfect Awareness. While we do have some realness granted to our own being, it is only so much as to let us be the receivers of awareness and to have our ‘own’.

For proof, witness one’s own night dreams. These are obviously fake, their inconsistencies revealing the instability of this virtual reality. My car is never where I left it; scene backgrounds change often; when I read a page of text, the text changes when I look again; gravity doesn’t always work, since I can fly; plus I awake from it all and can then see it for what it wasn’t.

Night dreams are for our own entertainment of our own being, driven but by noise, static, memory, associations, wishes, and by the general nature of the mind to try to make sense of anything at all. Amazingly, this simulation model of reality is the same tuner used by us when we are awake, but of course then the the broadcast is one that is really coming in from the Perfect Awareness.

Although what is of our waking state is an illusion, it is an absolutely perfect one. Try as we may, there is no way to tell it from one that could be real all by itself. Chemistry, mathematics, biology, physics, and all work perfectly to the letter as they would and should if they were real‚ and naturally so since the Awareness is Perfect. All would just go ‘poof’ if not for the source of Perfect Awareness.

There is no real birth or death, since we are not real, but only the continuing being of a dream character that has been granted its own version of awareness so that it can operate more uniquely in the dream.

There is no Heaven, Hell, will, and any such, for again, we are not real, but only to be a part of the Perfect Awareness itself dreaming this life.

‘Dreaming’ is a good word to employ for this since we know what stuff dreams are made of. It’s just that the dream goes beyond that since we are part and parcel of the Perfect Awareness and thus can have lives and dreams, too, which are only seemingly real.

Aside for it all not being real as an actual happening, there is no other meaning but that which is given us to be, even though it is actually the undetectable ‘to be’.

As for it not being real, it being more of an unscripted play, it has no permanent meaning—of which fact we may take it all quite a bit more lightly, but maybe not. Suffering, although felt, is not real beyond the dream feelings, but it still hurts.

Never-the-less, all is just the way things are, and not something necessarily to be fixed or eliminated, for without the lows, there would be no contrasted feelings to let one take notice of the highs.

So, all just is, just how it should be, as this is what the Perfect Awareness does. There is nothing further to read into it.

All in all, everything of the illusion is the same as if all were real (without any particular motive), the only difference being that the Perfect Awareness is the source of the illusion rather than some real stuff just having been around and combining and evolving.

The illusion can be taken as real if one wishes to use the illusion for whatever reason. We deduce this because the plain and uninsightful wo/man would normally think that all is real anyway.

We aren’t really sure whether all is broadcast out there, for the mind to take in, or broadcast directly to the mind, for it to think is out there, or if the mind is also part of the broadcast, but these methods and such are still important to consider to bolster the belief.

Any comments, pro, con, or no matter?

25
The lips of talkers will be telling such things as pertain
not unto them: but the words of such as have understanding are weighed in the balance.
26
The heart of fools is in their mouth: but the mouth of the
wise is in their heart.

e.g "Perfection."

Namaste`
D.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Another vote for The Perfect Awareness of which 'we' all are.