[Drifter]

find, a Particle. Physics is screaming that the Observer can only
observe what it thinks - its thoughts are what it Observes. If the
collection of thoughts -- molecular-dream -- that Language calls a
mind, ego or intellect, cannot Realize this simple message then it, the
intellect, obviously needs more thoughts so that they can feed the
Futility and Chaos that thoughts need to be the something else that
we call neutrons.
This "Observing is Observer is Observed" phenomenon applies to
Everything, even big things, like the universe. The universe thus
can, in turn, help thoughts exercise the Futility physics Certainly
needs for its Uncertainty Principle.
The universe is held together by its non-existent gravity that makes
it expand by contracting. Gravity works with the same impossible
Catch88 Duality that electrons and protons need to be simultaneously
attracted and repelled to/from each other. Gravity makes the universe
contract by expanding at or beyond the impossible speed of light in
such a way that the Observer is always at its center, which the
universe also cannot have.
The universe cannot have a center, at which the Observer always has to
be, because the Big Bang has Thermodynamically and Uncertainly made it
into an expanding sphere with a non-existent past for its inside, and
an even more non-existing future for the outside.
Thus if the Observer is at the center of the universe, which cannot
have a center (because the past never exists) then either the universe
or the Observer cannot exist - or: both are like thoughts and do not
exist, except in imagination, fiction, language. If both do not exist
then Everything is the Same. And regardless of any thoughts a mind or
intellect can Certainly be, have: the Observer, the Observing, and
the Observed - the Universes, ity - are the Dream in which the
dreamer, dreaming and the dream has eternally been the Same.
Ones
Then there is the second language whose singularity is not
"neutrons" but another word, thought, "ones." This second
language is the binary language of computers.
"Ones" work as well as do neutrons to certify or emotionalize,
mystify and/or materialize, and if need be even terminate, vaporize,
immaterialize and if need be kill everything Imaginable in the
Universes.
All the fiction, thoughts, that minds or intellects have ever created,
in the form of novels, movies, recordings and everything else, can be
digitalized into the computer's binary-language of ones and no-ones,
zeros. There is more. There is literally nothing a mind can imagine
that cannot be converted or translated into the computer's binary
language of ones - from animated movies to computer generated movies,
or anything a mind can future-changing-pastly add or subtract, edit,
adjust, clarify, create or simply change so that history can ly have
its documentaries.
These "ones" can work so well for fiction, language, imagination,
deception, that there is absolutely no imaginary reason why computers
cannot be hooked up directly to the mind that Language also calls a
brain. When thus connected -- like in the movie "The Matrix" -- a
computer can create everything in the imaginary outside universe that a
mind, "brain," could ever want to imagine, feel, taste, hear,
sense, see and smell without it ever having to wake up to its comatose
body, let alone the computer.

[Drifter]

Computers try to tell us Minds what is otherwise the obvious Catch88:
The only possible difference between any hallucination and observation,
perception is, or is in, the mind, thoughts - because it is the mind.
Only the mind can choose or decide what will be its thoughts and what
will be its neutrons that need observation and sensations - when in
Reality there can Comically be no choice, only the thoughts that are
not only all the Same but also Nothing.
The computer has what Language calls "memory": ones and its
Nothing, "zeros." To a computer "memory" has to work exactly
like a "thought" or dream or "observation" otherwise it could
not work. If memory was different to a thought then a computer
literally could not function unless it had some sort of
threes-and-zeros for its observations, twos-and-zeros for its
"thoughts" so that its "memory" could be ones-and-zeros.
>From all its different directions physics, and its computers, are
trying to tell us Minds that another word for imagination, mind, is
fiction, deception. For the material or Language's-dream, ity, to
be the mind (to exist "in" the mind) these deceptions, fictions,
have to be stacked on top of each other so a mind can Seriously imagine
the ultra-sophisticated materials, compounds and composites
atomic-clocks need to help super-computers make their billions of
calculation per (elastic) second, to simpler materials, compounds and
composites, down to molecules, and then down to the atoms and then
sub-atomic particles until we get to the first thought, imagination or
deception: the neutron; that cannot exist because it not only needs
space, which cannot exist, but also an antineutron that except for the
first imagination, deception, doesn't exist even better.
Hypnosis
In hypnosis a Mind is talked into doing things or into perceiving or
not-perceiving things that they are also told to either remember or
forget in any imaginable combination. Thus a hypnotized mind can be
told to remember or not remember that it is hypnotized. Hypnosis,
words, can also tell its mind to remember or not remember a
hypnotized event after the event occurs. Or the hypnosis can tell its
mind to remember something a little different or even something totally
different from the hypnotized event that did, or did not happen
depending on the hypnosis, its memories, and its events.
Hypnosis thus works exactly like a computer connected to mind that
Language also calls a "brain."
Like a computer connected to a mind, brain, the mind's or
Language's hypnotist can make the mind do or not do, remember, or
not remember, perceive or hallucinate anything; and then create
everything in the imaginary outside universe that the mind could ever
want to Seriously imagine and thus hallucinate to feel, taste, hear,
sense, see and smell without the mind ever having to wake up to its
hypnosis.
Like computers, hypnosis tries to tell its Minds the obvious: the
ONLY possible difference between any dream , hallucination, and
perception is in the mind because it is the mind. Hypnosis screams at
us the loudest that all three -- the mind, perceptions or observations
and hallucinations -- have to be the Same: thoughts.
Hypnosis is just a thought. Hypnosis is just an imaginary control over
the way a mind determines what is a (dream) memory, hallucination or
observation when in Reality not only are they all the Same but also

[Drifter]

Nothing. Since the mind Catch88ly dictates all the differences between
memory, thoughts, hallucinations and perceptions it can make no
difference as to how many ways a mind wants to Seriously differentiate
between the thoughts it calls dreams, hypnosis, hallucinations and
perceptions, computers or hypnotists.
Computers and hypnotists are just two of the ways a mind can use to
Comically, Importantly, differentiate between its hallucinations and
observations. Drugs, education, indoctrination, brain-washing and
religions are just some of the other ways.
When it comes to materializing its words, hypnosis goes far beyond all
the omnipotent Languages that universities, seminaries,
basic-training, military academies, brain-washing, FBI and CIA or KGB,
together with or without drugs can come up with.
Hypnosis is the quintessential language because it screams the loudest
that there is no doer. It screams that there are only thoughts, the
mind. If the mind has thoughts about perceptions then the mind becomes
its perceptions. If the mind has a thought about hypnosis then it
becomes the hypnosis. If the mind has a thought "I am Me, the
doer" then this thought becomes "the Doer." The mind has no
limits with its thoughts - it can even have the thought "I cannot
be hypnotized," or the more absurd or Comical thought: "I am not a
thought."
To recover the topic: It is absolutely no coincidence that thoughts
work exactly like subatomic-particles, neutrons, that come out of
Reality's Nothing only to return into this Same Nothing unpredictably
and uncontrollably. Control is just a word and thus a thought. A
mind can no more control thoughts because it is the thoughts. The mind
can no more control the way thoughts determine hallucinations and
observations -- than can the imaginary characters on the movie-screen
change the way they play their role when the movie is replayed. If
there is no control, and never has been any control, of thoughts, or
anything else imaginable, then it can make absolutely no difference as
to what criteria - computers, hypnotists or even drugs - a mind,
thoughts, uses to differentiate between its hallucinations and
observations because in Reality they are not only the Same but also
Nothing.
Hypnosis is also proof that thoughts and memories are one and the Same.
If they were different a hypnotist could not tell a mind to forget
what it will do and otherwise remember something that it will not do.
=
The mind can thus imagine at least five ways it can be controlled when
there Catch88ly can be no control.
ONE: It is, and is thus controlled by thoughts; or the mind can
Catch88ly think it controls what it is, thoughts.
TWO: The mind can imagine physics so that its thoughts can then be
controlled by imaginary neutrons, the brain.
THREE: The mind can imagine computers so that its thoughts can be
controlled by imaginary ones.
FOUR: The mind can imagine that its hallucinations and observations are
controlled by a hypnotist, drug, a cult, religion or even money. Or
it can imagine it is controlled by the mega-corporations that work as
the façade for the monopoly that the Greeks invented, and then Rome
improved, and then all sorts of wars to end wars perfected: democracy.
FIVE: The mind can imagine it is an imaginary character on a movie
screen.

[Drifter]

=-=
There is only one field of endeavor that has tried to find some sort of
order to the "observer sees what it is" Chaos that is
Language's-dream, ity, the Totality of Thoughts, Imagination.
This single field of endeavor is what has been called the Supreme
Science.
This science is "supreme" because it is the study of the roots of
all Chaos and Futility: thoughts. It is also supreme because it
studies thoughts at every imaginable level: the thoughts of
atomic-dreams that Language calls sleep-dreams, the thoughts in
language's "awake" state that is the molecular-dream we call
mind; and Reality's "Awake" state: the no-thoughts of
dreamless-sleep.
The Continuous and the Quantum
Until recently Newton's Laws of motion defined the physics in which
everything, like time and space, was continuous so that mass could then
be rock solid. When thoughts improved the methods-of-science then
physicists were shocked to discover that when things slowed down then
time and space was no longer very continuous. There was nothing
continuous because there were all sorts of gaps not only between
particles but also energy. These gaps defined what physics calls
quantums. Physics then discovered that neutrons were compartmentalized
into quantum's probability-clouds called atoms, and then atoms were
in turn compartmentalized into molecules.
And then what was previously rock-solid, mass or matter, was totally
uncertain because it was, at best, these quantum or probability clouds
called atoms and their molecules. The Uncertainty Principle followed
quickly with the Chaos that then, more than ever, needed
thermodynamics.
The Uncertainty Principle "revealed" that Newtonian Physics was
just an imaginary façade or surface of the more Certain
quantum-physics.
Over five thousand years earlier a few sages around the Indus River,
in India, discovered the same Uncertainty Principle. Their
"uncertainty principle" revealed to them that Imagination, the
Universes - the Totality of Thoughts -- was the imaginary façade or
surface of compartmentalized-thinking dreaming. They thus discovered
that thoughts worked exactly like neutrons that are compartmentalized
into atoms and molecules.
The Supreme Science
Over five thousand years ago a few ~sages in the forests around the
Indus River, in India, woke up to something that is so Supremely
simple that to this day it is at least one Catch88 dimension beyond
the imagination of ordinary minds, and at least three Catch88
dimensions beyond the more handicapped ~certain-minds, ~intellects.
When it comes to this subject of Nothing, fiction, the more Certain a
mind is with the thoughts that it Comically needs not to be thoughts
the more handicapped it has to be to Realize that it, the mind, is
thoughts.
Back then a few of these sages woke up to "Nothing." This Nothing
is not language's "nothing" but Reality's Nothing - the
Nothing without which there can be no language, thoughts, fiction.
This Nothing from which all thoughts, neutrons and ones come and go
became the foundation of the Supreme Science.
Back then these sages were bothered by the insufferable and incessant
Chaos they observed through their senses. They observed, for example,

[Drifter]

that they could rarely agree with each other completely about anything,
let alone everything. To some of these sages it appeared that the
information they got from their senses had more to do with
hallucinations than observations.
To find some order to their senses, or observations, these sages were
forced to turn their attention from the Duality of observations and
hallucinations of their "outside" or universe to the sort of
"inner" or dream universe. They observed their thoughts.
When some of these sages observed their thoughts their mind went blank
and they Woke up. These relatively rare sages that Awoke to the Silence
that was no-thoughts, no-mind, were what I will call ~Saints.
A Saint is simply a Now-mind. A Now-mind is what it thinks. A Now-mind
is aware that it is what it thinks because its thoughts are not
compartmentalized into a molecular-dream that Language calls its mind,
intellect or ego.
When their mind was not creating thoughts, like dreams and their
Universes, it left the background of thoughts that was the Silence of
no-thoughts, Reality, the Everpresent Now.
After Waking up to mindlessness, dreamless-sleep, Reality, the Silence
of Now, these Saints Realized that the mind - collection of
disconnected thoughts -- was obviously just a collection of thoughts;
otherwise, a dream generator. The dream they could have called the
Supreme Comedy but instead they called it Maya, illusion, or Lila, a
play.
Back then these sages did not have a dictionary with the word movie or
neutron. Had these sages had the word movie they would have Realized
that Maya and Lila is the Same as the word movie.
The mind, these sages Realized, generated dreams or thoughts that
included everything that was in the imaginary-inside, with its
sleep-dreams or atomic-dreams, and also the imaginary-outside - the
Universes of thoughts, the molecular-dreams that together defined
Imagination, Language's-dream, the -universes which are the senses,
and their sense-objects.
When they studied their thoughts these Sages became aware that thoughts
were not continuous. These sages discovered that in language's
awake-state thoughts appear to be continuous but when the mind slowed
down, with meditation, there was always a gap between thoughts. These
gaps work exactly like physics' quantums.
These sages then discovered what physics would need neutrons to
discover over five-thousand years later: that thoughts were like
neutrons that are confined to atoms and molecules. While neutrons can
be confined to atoms and molecules thoughts can be confined to their
atomic-dreams and molecular-dreams. The atomic-dreams are language's
sleep-dreams, and molecular-dreams are Language's "minds,
intellects and egos."
They then discovered that the only thing that made Saints appear
different from ordinary or -minds, was that their thoughts were
somehow not confined, to anything, let alone the molecular-dream that
Language Certainly calls its mind, intellect, ego. In other words,
while ordinary-minds could not believe that they, their mind, is what
it thinks, Saints did.
These sages also discovered that like sub-atomic particles these
disconnected or quantum thoughts came out of Nothing only to return
into this same Nothing totally uncontrollably and unpredictably - and
thus their, the Supreme Science's, uncertainty-principle.
Saints did not start the Supreme Science for their was nothing for them

[Drifter]

to start, let alone study.
Saints Realized that they were Awake and after they were Awake there
was absolutely no doubt that everything that was not this Awakeness,
Silence, had to be some sort of noise, illusion, Maya, or Lila, a
play, imagination, thought or dream, movie.
The followers of these Saints started the Supreme Science.
Saints had no words or thoughts to share about the Reality that made
them Awake to dreamless-sleep. Once they were Awake to their dreaming,
language's-dream, they had nothing to teach any more than we can
teach someone in our dreams. Once they Awoke to (Be) Reality -- the
Silence of no-thoughts --then thoughts, words, became some sort of
Noise, Chaos, fiction. Language had no words for this Reality
mostly because, to Language, Reality had to Catch88ly be the
empty-space, Void or Silence in which Language had to be some sort of
noise or disturbance that defined the Supreme Comedy that is Futility
and Chaos that dreams need not to be what they are: thoughts.
Reality has an integral-language that is Everpresent and otherwise
non-verbal, non-emotional and non-sensory. This integral-language of
Reality is everpresent Joy. These Saints, like Buddha, were/are this
Joy that words like Peace, Harmony, Love can point to. This Joy is
otherwise an unimaginable "Freedom" from thoughts; it is an
unfathomable and ineffable Silence or Mindlessness that foreign words
would try and name Nirvana, Samadhi.
Those receptive-minds who went without thoughts long enough became
receptive to the Joy these Saints were, sort of radiated. Those minds
that could not be without thoughts were either Catch22ly ~oblivious or
Catch88ly ~multi-oblivious to this Everpresent Joy that these Saints
were/are Everpresently.
It was these receptive followers who also wanted to wake up to, or
Realize, Reality who started the Supreme Science, the study of
thoughts. These receptive followers had a notion that if they could
somehow sort of outflank Futility and use thoughts to "understand"
thoughts then they could get rid of them and thus Realize or wake up to
Reality, Samadhi, Nirvana. So they studied their thoughts and this
study became the Supreme Science.
When they observed their thoughts these sages stumbled on the Big Bang
of dualities. They discovered non-duality, Advaita, in which subject ,
verb and object -- the Observer, the Observing and the Observed -- are
all the Same.
While all sorts of intellects around the world have been materializing
all the infinite numbers of Dualities that universities, religions and
their politicians and preachers Seriously need to materialize
bigger-monuments for all their better-wars, and crusades, these sages
of the Indus River studied this Non-Duality.
When they observed their thoughts it dawned on them that the
Observer, the subject, and thoughts, the object, were the same -
there was no duality. Dualities were created when the mind started to
generate its dreams, fictions, that included the thought: "I am
these-thoughts and not those-thoughts." These-thoughts then became
the word "me" and then those-thoughts became the word "that" or
"it" to manifest, imagine or dream the
only-possible-impossible-duality, Duality: the observer, "me" and
the observed, "that" or "it, thems."
When these sages set out to find some order to the inner-universe of
their mind they were not disappointed. Indeed to call the surprise they
got from Awakening into Silence mind-blowing would be the most

[Drifter]

monumental misunderstanding any language could emotionalize let alone
materialize. Universe-shattering would be more fitting. It was more
like the universe-shattering Joy that can only come when gravity
finally finds the imagination or energy it has never had to suddenly
implode all its ten out or ten antineutrons and neutrons - with all
their insufferable and incessant Dualities -- back into its Big Bang.
When these sages awoke to the same Silence of Saints then everything
imaginable, all thoughts and their minds, bodies and Universes
vanished to leave the Totality of Everything - the unimaginable and
ineffable Joy or/of Awareness, a Supreme Awakeness, Silence, Nirvana.
While the body came back afterwards it was in a dream or Maya that was
a Now-mind, or a working-mind, not a thinking-mind that bodies need
to fear and hate, bleed and break.
When these Saints Awoke to Silence, Awareness, Reality, it had so much
order that it was not only obliviously beyond their wildest dreams, but
it was multi-obliviously beyond any language that minds could
imagine, by a Catch88 magnitude of at least three.
1: First magnitude: In Language's-dream that I call ity, which we
otherwise call our bodies and their outside-universes, not only does
a mind rarely agree with any one thing completely, let alone most
things, but it often does not agree with its own observations as its
everchanging emotions, thoughts, continuously keep altering its
opinions, observations, memories, dreams, hallucinations and
perceptions. In contrast to the Chaos of our outside or -universe all
"observers" of the mindless "inner" or Now, Reality, Silence,
Awakeness, always agree completely with not only a few things but
indeed with absolutely Everything about, and in, this Silence, Now.
2: Second magnitude: all Observers are in such complete agreement about
this Awakeness and its ineffable Silence and its overwhelmingly
unimaginable and undeniable Joyful intensity that they have to be the
Same, "Observer.'"
3: Third magnitude: Not only are all "Observers" of Silence the
Same "Observer" but they are this Silence, Awakeness,
supreme-awareness or Reality; as is Everything else a mind can imagine,
be. So much so that there can be nothing else but this Silence or
Awareness, Now, Reality, other than the noise or Chaos we call dreams
or fictions but only because they are Reality's, Silence's,
Nothing.
These sages thus woke up to what the language of physics and computers
would be screaming at us over five thousand years later: the
"Observer is the Observing and the Observed." There is no doer,
only thoughts, fiction. Not only is there no doer but there is no-two,
there is no Duality only One, Advaita,( "pantheism?" or
"monism?."). The mind is what it thinks, "observes." Fiction
improves into Chaos and Futility when we take our fictions Seriously
with thoughts like "I am not these thoughts" that then have to be
projected to an imaginary outside so that the thought " I am these
thoughts" can be the imaginary "me" in an imaginary inside.
After they woke up to (be) Reality -- Nirvana, Samadhi, Ecstasy or
Bliss -- Everything else was a pathetically mundane Maya, Lila for
at least four mindless reasons:
First Reason: Compared to NOW, Reality, Silence, anything with
language's "name" and "form" is, at best, a disturbance for
this Silence. This disturbance is called Maya or illusion and Lila, a
play, that today's dictionaries would have to call a movie.
Second Reason: If anything and everything with "name and form" has

[Drifter]

to be the movie called Maya, then anything that changes "name and
form" had to be an even better or more-potent Maya, a dream, or
movie.
Third Reason : anything that adds disorder to change, to thus turn it
into Chaos, had to obviously be an even more-potent Maya, a dream or
Movie.
Fourth Reason: When fathomless depths of Chaos are stacked upon
limitless levels of Chaos and Futility then this has to literally
scream that anything with "name and form" that changes on
limitless levels and to fathomless depths has to most obviously be Maya
or Lila, Movie - that is the Supreme Comedy when taken Seriously
=
These Indus River sages of old did not discover anything unusual.
If we observe young infants then awareness will tell us that all of us
Minds are "born" as Now-minds.
What is spiritually intuitive to an infant can be beyond the realm of
fiction for any thinking-mind, let alone an important-intellect. What
thinking-mind, let alone genius, could stop thinking long enough to
be aware that "it" -- the mind -- no longer knows itself,
"god," so it should ask someone who was just there, a newborn,
about "god." What mind can accept that with death, as with
deep-sleep, it Wakes up. These simple examples came from otherwise
ordinary infants.
We are "born" as Now-minds that can learn or imagine any language
imaginable. And then book-language, Language, and its inherent
Dualities of subjects and objects, mind and matter, matter and energy,
matter and spirit, inside and outside, past and future, -- comes
along with its Certain, Serious or Cocksure dictionaries to
Omnipotently materialize all sorts of further Dualities of bodies and
sexes, societies, races, culture, cults and their religions, education,
sciences and humanities that feed all the Chaos that Catch88ly turns
a Now-mind into the thinking-mind that the Supreme Comedy needs to be
not only supreme but also a verbal or intellectual Catch88.
All this is the Supreme Comedy but only if you take all this
seriously; otherwise it is just words, fiction.

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by melanie

THIS.... all this, is non-dual, all- inclusive, no-thing is excluded,
IT is all encompassing, all pervading,
ONENESS ......one without a second.
There is no-one to make a choice otherwise.
For who is there to make that choice?
IT is self evident in the SEE-in

The 'apparent' 'i' made no choice, i became or was apparently 'aware' that i was ''awareness'' itself and no-thing else,
That wasn't really a choice, it was a state of being.
The 'i' became aware that 'i' was the eternal witness to all ''things'' arising and fading,
including these fingers typing these words.

Single or multiple ideas are only ideas/concepts 'arising' in awareness.
There 'appears' to be multiplicity,
superimposition allows for this.
In reality there is only BEINGNESS/ AWARENESS ''appearing''
as every-thing and no-thing.

Yes, both subject and object are ONE and the same.

Yes, the children were entrusted into my care,
it was my instinctive duty to be their carer.
My job was part of this story, it was to help pay for their up-keep.
So yes, the children were a priority.

There was never any multiple ideas in my mind.
My personal task, was to play the cards that were laid out on my table.
There was only ever one way of doing things, as far as i was aware.

There are no other perspectives for me to see.
As far as i am aware, i am already playing out my role in life.
The 'i' became aware of myself as being complete in every moment,
that 'i' am a unique spark of the divine light,
expressing, and being a part of the experiencing of this life.
Appearing..... in this ever present now.

I agree with your overall analogy.
I don't think it is up to 'us' 'per se' to decide what is limitless or not.
We are nothing but pure energy surfing the mystery of every moment, completely unknown, and yet known in the instant, one with the knowing. Ever unchanged.

Yes The Multiplicity of ideas ''arise'' in this conception. To no-one, 'apparently'

melanie.

Hi Melanie,

I am happy to see the continuation of us thinking similarly. But I am also not going to trick or convince you that we think exactly identical, for we are not. So thank you for sharing your experience with me and the communication we have with each other.

Drifter,

Just the shear volume of your words makes me want to avoid communicating with you, for it is too much like a monologue. If this is an analogy of how you think we exist within this creation then I have news for you: the essence of real communication is based on having a dialog not on a monologue. I hope you have the feeling that I am listening to you, but that I cannot absorb two pages of posts and write within a single post my comments back to you.

Funny, but that is exactly the overall point I have been trying to make in this thread! The real overall thing is a dialog, not a monologue.

[Drifter]

There are two ends to every stick.

I should have replied to michael...the original post was his...but my post included a reply to yours...

looking back...it was posted to "The Forum". Nobody particularly...

While it is not my own composition...I agree with it totally as a ToE...just sharing...perhaps in the wrong spot...but as opinions go...everybody has one...so call that one mine.

sorry for the apparent confusion...

I apologize for the monologuos "volume"...[no link/no original author...my bad]

While it does cover several realtive/relevant principles[to reach more than one mind] it is a but much... and why the "Like Cooking an Elephant"... caveat was inserted in bold.

I enjoyed your post...and michaels...and Melanies...

I'm aware there are many discerning minds for whom I had hoped the topics of the volume might share with as useful insights as well...

My most humble Apologies where needed,

It is a theorum, per-se...albeit a persistent one...

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Dream_Within_a_Dream

Most humble apologies Frederick...
D.

Originally Posted by Fredrick

Hi Melanie,

I am happy to see the continuation of us thinking similarly. But I am also not going to trick or convince you that we think exactly identical, for we are not. So thank you for sharing your experience with me and the communication we have with each other.

Drifter,

Just the shear volume of your words makes me want to avoid communicating with you, for it is too much like a monologue. If this is an analogy of how you think we exist within this creation then I have news for you: the essence of real communication is based on having a dialog not on a monologue. I hope you have the feeling that I am listening to you, but that I cannot absorb two pages of posts and write within a single post my comments back to you.

Funny, but that is exactly the overall point I have been trying to make in this thread! The real overall thing is a dialog, not a monologue.