[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

Thats a tall order Fredrick,perfect ideation arises from within Absolute consciousness,
which is perfection,and the very core of BEING-LIFE-ITSELF,of which we know nothing
and is as a darkened flame.

I "see" the birth of motion at the point of the "idea=arising" from within absolute mind
"from absolute stillness arose motion,involution is the process of "wrapping up" principles
within principles as the great thought unrolls itself into new found space,involution is the
"involving" process putting in all those aspects that aeons later would begin to be unwrapped as the evolutionary phase began.We as I see it are all outposts of the one
central absolute consciousness,and which as we unfold more and more of the outer layers
of maya,reveal more and more of what we really our,which is totally different to what we
think we are!

That in a nut shell is the central idea of this thread.

regards michael.

I like the delivery, Michael. I could nitpick, but since it is indeed a tall order, I will not: I like it.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

Thats a tall order Fredrick,perfect ideation arises from within Absolute consciousness,
which is perfection,and the very core of BEING-LIFE-ITSELF,of which we know nothing
and is as a darkened flame.

I "see" the birth of motion at the point of the "idea=arising" from within absolute mind
"from absolute stillness arose motion,involution is the process of "wrapping up" principles
within principles as the great thought unrolls itself into new found space,involution is the
"involving" process putting in all those aspects that aeons later would begin to be unwrapped as the evolutionary phase began.We as I see it are all outposts of the one
central absolute consciousness,and which as we unfold more and more of the outer layers
of maya,reveal more and more of what we really our,which is totally different to what we
think we are!

That in a nut shell is the central idea of this thread.


regards michael.

tantilizing...anthology michael

Namaste`
D.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Drifter

The dot became a line, then a squiggle, appearing here, now. out of nowhere~~~~~~as words on the screen of awareness... after translation, of course...

"Eat, Survive, Reproduce" [When we took the word as our own... we lost our Pure intuition...words have been a replacement subsitute ever since]

Namaste`
D.

Gods Word
Knew I then that in Words are the power to open the planes that are hidden from man
(Emerald tablet of Thoth)


God's Word contains the concept for the creation of the universe based upon the Kabala and cosmic consciousness principals.
The universe was created from the endless void where there was "darkness on the face of the abyss".
The void is the Creator himself who has no body, form or definition.

Namaste
M.

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by melanie

The void is the Creator himself who has no body, form or definition.

Melanie,

Does this include the freedom to view this entity as that entity that made the first mistake (though not knowingly/willingly)?

[Fredrick]

Originally Posted by melanie

The void is the Creator himself who has no body, form or definition.

How about the void being nothing but the portal through which creation started to appear at the material level? In our quest to understand the creator we need to focus in that case on what existed behind this portal, as the source, and not view the portal as equal to the creator.

In a sense, we should regard ourselves then as coming from this other level of the un-materialized beginning, but having to deal additionally with the consequences of the material universe. We ourselves could then be seen as parts (or all) of the creator found inside the creation.

The only way for matter to appear at the materialized level would be one of going through the portal (the void) and would more than likely contain aspects of that void as well. Creator + void = creation.

I believe this way diversity at the materialized level must be the standard, since all matter would then contain the imperfect aspect of the void next to their specific (re)creations of the original perfect state.

Would that be as much a possible explanation in your opinion?

[melanie]

Fredrick.

I see our reality as a dream.
AWARENESS has always been, it must have, it is proof and 'apparent' through us as relative consciousness. An aspect of awareness.
The self became aware of itself. There is only MIND or SELF imo
Everything is a mind creation, everything came out of the mind or void.
The things, objects, 'appearing' separate are one and the same phenomena.
Now consider the possibility that the Self dreams up all of this separate manifestation.
Like the dreamer appearing in his own dream, we can say that the creator appears in his manifestation
while at the same time the manifestation appears in the creator.
Dreamlike he manifests the whole cosmic drama out of himself.
Like the spider spins it's web from out of itself, drawing it back into itself.
That's how i see this reality personally,
this is the only way imo and the only logical explanation of our reality.
And because there is only one being doing all of this it can't ever be proved.
And yet it is it's own proof quite evidently.
One with the knowing.
It can't ever be fathomed, that is always the eye searching for the eye.
All works perfectly well in any case. IT's a never ending mystery.
The mind cannot get beyond the mind.
And logic cannot get past it's own logic.
The concepts of near and far, past and future, self and other,
create the relative experiences of space and time,
but space and time in and of themselves have no reality.
They are "mind-generated objects" in this universe
and are temporal occurrences,
and only have size and form relative to each other.




M.

[Fredrick]

Hi Melanie,

I think we are very close in agreement then about our reality. Your words appear to be capturing very similar ideas I have. The only difference I feel we have is that I do believe that within our reality we have certain abilities. In science, that would be the ability to measure and to experience. Still, those measurements and experiences are as Einstein showed us of a relative nature: we cannot measure the exact size of the universe, we cannot exactly experience what another person experiences. Yet we can measure and know somethings about our universe that must therefore inform us to some extent about the current state and about the original state.

I believe we can view our universe (and ourselves) using different concepts, such as when looking at black&white pictures and looking at color pictures that may give us a different feel, even when the image is the same.

Ideas can be told in the singular, with all being one, and in the plural, with all being not one.

Just to stay close to a divine entity or an overarching idea as the source for our universe, what is your opinion on the fact that all ancient societies rejected the idea of a single god? Is our universe the result of a clash of ideas and can therefore not be supported by a single idea? How would you explain ancient peoples having had the fortitude to reject singularity (such as happened with/after Akhenaten and Nefertiti in ancient Egypt). They had no problem conjuring the idea, and it would have been the most powerful/highest state imaginable, yet they rejected it. Any ideas?

[melanie]

Fredrick.

First of all i have never had any inclinations to study maths, science, physics, or any historical events.
I have been a single mother raising 4 children and holding down a teaching of 3/5 year olds job aside.
This was my one and only priority in life to be there for my children 24/7
I've lived in a perpetual natural state and i find anything other than that extremely toxic to my being.

It has never been my desire to do anything other that 1 thing at a time.
I had a relentless need to find out 'who' is this 'ME' character.
'' Who am I '' and how did i get here?
This has been a part of my personal psyche since i was a small child as i recall.
Perhaps if we focus more on who we are, by looking into our own self,
rather than looking 'out there' and believing in what others are telling us about ourselves and our reality.
There might be some nice surprises waiting for us.
''Out There'' in reality doesn't really exist it is only ever ' in here '
it is ''appearing'' in Awareness.
Not outside of it.
''things'' are in awareness .. and not awareness is in ''things''

It's funny, but the more i grasp this, the more it takes my breath away.
People can scoff at me and they do, but i don't care, it doesn't matter what people think anymore. I'm well past all that nonsense.

After much soul searching into the nature of the ' Self ' i am now satisfied and pretty well certain about who i am and who i am not.

So in answer to you questions .. why would the ancient egyptians reject the idea of a non-dual reality.

When you think about that for a moment, has anything really changed in that idea?
Not really, today most people would laugh in your face if you said to them,
Well actually dear person you are not who you think you are, so don't worry too much about things ok.
And yet once it is fully understood it becomes so absolutely obvious, one would wonder why one ever missed it.

Children know it, and so too do many autistic and disabled people,
also many simple pious people, including the peoples from the eastern countries etc.
Non-duality has not taken off here in the west, maybe because these peoples have been spoilt with too much riches and material delights,
they are conditioned to think they are separate special people with their own specific talents and attributes, and of wealth and status.
However That is still part of this story of ONENESS ''arising'' in this conception.
It's all part of the play of Lila.
We are all playing our unique parts in the the play.
Including Doctors, lawyers, accountants, judges, policemen, and scientists etc, etc.

All of the worlds discoveries and inventions etc,
are uncovered by brilliant minds, who do a very excellent job,
these discoveries were already there in this conception,
just waiting to be uncovered and discovered.

What delights and mysteries still await us in this miracle life we have been blessed with, they must be limitless.

There is so much to live for when you really think about it.
And we must be careful not to stray away from our ''NATURAL STATE''
Every-thing man made has had a detrimental and toxic effect on our world.
Hopefully we are beginning to wake up to this realization.
For example the plastic issue is very grave,
i mean it's all about profit and money at the end of the day imo.

Toxic television programmes have influenced our young minds,
they are repeatedly brainwashed and manipulated by people such as their own governments and societies.
Such manipulation is permitted, allowed and tolerated by the subdued masses.
It is self perpetuating and self demanding.
Humanity is moving further and further away from their divine ''NATURAL STATE''
A state that is ultimately sacred, mysterious, beautiful and immortal.

Non-duality .. It has got us thinking and being in new abstract ways,
Thinking about It is having to hold down two opposing ideas at the same time,
which is not an easy thing to do in this current world climate.

However once fully realized it is the end of all mental suffering,
as we gain more and more insight into the real nature of our reality and gain access into
the portals of the universe and immortality.

Fully realized by the individual it becomes ''the peace that passes all understanding''
conflicts and strong emotions still 'arise' and effect us.
That cannot be avoided, we still hurt, but these emotions are only ever short lived.
We realize it is an unavoidable part of duality and part of the being human experience.

Instead of religiously living close to our tangible senses,
we can also examine the un-tangible senses the unseen world of metaphysics.

For example gravity, electricity, wind, air, to name but a few,
all these ideas are there, but we cannot see them,
and our senses are obviously aware of them.
So just because something cannot be seen doesn't mean it is not there.

One of the main reasons non-duality is often rejected,
is because it takes away the individuality of the person,
or the separate self as we know it,
we are all too accustomed to what we think to be ourself,
we are very attached to ourself quite rightly so,
and any idea of giving that up, is indeed a non starter imo

What is often not realized, is that in reality there is no-self to be given up,
because it was never there to be given up in the first place.
It is much too subtle, It has to be fully studied, for the rational intellectual mind to ever grasp or comprehend it.
In reality ..There is only 'Beingness' or 'Awareness'
BEING every-thing and no-thing.

Also i would assume the egyptians were very into Self- Idolatry,
so the very idea that they were just a temporal 'appearance' in Awareness
would have been quite an un-welcome idea to them.

Many very advanced and intelligent ancient civilizations have fallen,
as we all well know from our historical records found in books etc.
Including the legendary 'Atlantis' civilization.

Civilizations can only go so far before succumbing to their own selfish self inflicted demise.

M.

[Fredrick]

Hi Melanie,

I keep being amazed of how we are not that different in thinking and of how we developed. There is no other way for anyone to observe the outside world than from that singular starting point: me. And yes, there is a lot to experience and develop on the inside, too.

It looks like you have had a wonderful trip discovering yourself in this tremendous adventure, and that you are fully enjoying this miracle today of us all being here on this tiny planet. I would say you are a very conscious person.

And don't worry: I am not here to force a choice on you (and even if I did you have made it clear you view the universe as non-dual, so don't worry).

All I want to show is that you made a choice how to view the experience we are all in. As you describe, you have paid close attention to everything that has happened in your life, and based on all your experiences you have reached some important conclusions.

In my youth, I made the decision to accept everything as true unless proven otherwise. That means I did not make a choice whether it is a single idea or multiple ideas we live in.

The interesting part: I come to more or less the same conclusions, either way.

I walk both routes and I am informed by both routes in different ways that help me grasp the whole picture. Just as you mention, it is a fantastic experience. And it does not matter if we speak thirty languages or just one, these two options how to view the universe are there.

Normally, we are too busy in our lives to even notice that something as subtle as a choice exists. As you mention, raising 4 kids and holding down a teaching job is very time consuming, and you will have learned that it is important to set priorities.

The choice of one idea vs. multiple ideas is definitively not a priority. If you figure out that things work one way then why go through all the trouble to follow the other route as well, and ending up with something that is pretty close to the same information you already had.

But if you have the time (maybe the kids are older and you have more time), it may be fun to see things from other perspectives. It is like folding towels the same way for ten years, and then deciding to fold the towels another way. The end result is still the same: folded towels. But experiencing the realization that you had a choice from the start how to fold your towels is a little thrill in itself. Maybe you followed an example from your Mom or your friend, and possibly considered that the best (or even only) way. By deciding to fold the towels differently, the first way how to fold towels becomes just that: the first in a row of options.

And to use this example further: there are only an x-amount of ways to fold a towel; the options are not limitless. But there is more than one way to achieve the same result (though the folds themselves are different).

My overall conclusion: a single person can have multiple ideas.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by melanie

Gods Word
Knew I then that in Words are the power to open the planes that are hidden from man
(Emerald tablet of Thoth)


God's Word contains the concept for the creation of the universe based upon the Kabala and cosmic consciousness principals.
The universe was created from the endless void where there was "darkness on the face of the abyss".
The void is the Creator himself who has no body, form or definition.

Namaste
M.

Possible lost semantic "A 'face'[discript... Di=two... e.g.words?] on the darkness of the abyss" [papyrus] Telescopic/Microscopic"...Seeing... 7 kingdoms, written for all who would be-hold?