The ''God'' word

[austintorn@aol.com]

THE MAGISTERIA MUST OVERLAP

It can be shown that the magisteria already overlap.

1.
Suppose that there is an imagined supernatural Notion
That is supposed to have effects upon the natural,
Even luckily being that the Notion’s effects
Are to be found anywhere and everywhere.

Science, as it goes about
Its normal fact-finding business,
Probes and examines anywhere and everywhere,
Ever only finding the natural, that is, no violations,
No super-beyond-anything happening at all.

The conditions thus look exactly as they would
If there were no supernatural Notion.
There is then inadvertent overlap;
It’s unavoidable

OK, that’s an easy one,
Even a double-demise,
For the Notion couldn’t be
Proved in the first place
And so, thus, even further,
Is of no concern
Of any consequences from disbelief.

People make more informed decisions lately,
Good probability being enough,
As there cannot be complete
And perfect information.


2.
Now, nonexistence of a Notion,
Effects or not,
Can also be shown
If the Notion is self-contradictory;
No square circles;
No Design without DESIGN
As a first cause, etc.

I leave this to the readers.

3.
So, onto the tougher case that occurs
If the nonscientific magisterium retreats [giving up]
To a new position that there are no effects,
There being no intervention at all
But for the Notion having
Just created the universe
And not intervening any further.

Now, note that science is still but doing its own thing,
Investigating more and more fundamental realms,
Such as even proving that the quantum level
Is a random and indeterminate chaos,
That there can be no local
Hidden variables within it;
Thus, finding even that a near ‘nothing’—
The quantum fluctuation or tunneling—
Is the causeless bottom ‘something’
That is as simple as it gets,
This ‘something’, by the way,
Being the natural state of affairs,
Rather than a total Nothing that could not be,
Confirming the thought experiment
That a total Nothing couldn’t do a darn thing,
It not even being able to be ‘there’
To make anything anyway,
Plus, that there cannot be
Never-ending causes beneath causes,
And that therefore the causeless bottom
Must be of maximum non-specifics
Rather than any pre-defined order,
Much less a perfect order.

Thus, and, too,
The causeless bottom needed no creation.
The Notion is not only cut off at the source
But is not even required
Since the normal state is ‘something’.

The great philosophical question of
”Why is there something rather than nothing”
Is squashed,
For not anything can become of Nothing.

Science even then finds, as a bonus,
That the universe may have appeared
From a state of zero energy (optional),
This being, of course, within the unavoidable
And tiny quantum uncertainty,
Plus, that the negative energy of gravity
Matches the positive energy of matter,
Equaling a mass density of ‘zero’,
And, further, that every time
We try to measure what an atom does,
We get a different answer,
This then again being the answer
That that realm is causeless.
Furthermore, that realm
Is of discrete operations—
The quantum leaps
Even wiping away the notion
Of any universal continuity.

Another bonus possibly found is
That the ‘laws’ of point-of-view invariance
Automatically appear [are not handed down]
In any model that does not single out
A special moment in time, position in space,
Or direction in space,
Such as back at the Planck time
Of the big bang,
The universe having then
No distinguishable place,
Direction, or time, meaning that
It had no structure
And, thus,
That the conservation laws apply.

Further, it can be shown
That human and societal behaviors, morals,
Laws and values look just as
They can be expected to look
If there are only the natural goings on.

Science, in its quest for truth,
Has inadvertently stepped on the turf
Of the nonscientific magisterium.
So, there is much overlap.

[melanie]

Fact.


The words (Consciousness) or (Seeing) or (God) have no meaning.

They point directly to the reality which is simply self evident.

Meaning is simply known. Where is (the known) when it is not recalled as an appearance?


There is no such 'thing' as 'consciousness'

Consciousness is no 'thing'. It cannot be sensed or known. It is the sensing and knowing.

Attempting to describe it..... appears to take one deeper and deeper in to the pseudo-reality that exists only within the dream of separation.

There is no 'reality' except that perceived by the 'self'

There is no self distinct from its conceptual environment.

The so called 'self' emerges from within the conceptual milieu....and cannot be aware of its origin.

All differences are relative.



________



A video From 0ThouArtThat - a young man who has already grasped the concept of non-duality.

Differences and non-duality. amazing stuff, just listen.

http://www.videolife.tk/video/-vSTmP...n-duality.html

[SteveA]

Thanks for the video link, Melanie. I like the way he emphasizes both/all aspects. In a sense, leaving things at unity/non-duality can ironically be isolating of the multiplicity/non-equality/discreteness side of things as well.

One way to, in a sense, observe the self as something specific is to look at the properties/qualities/dimensions by which one can distinguish differences "out there". Those show the present perceptual capabilities of oneself.

A lower level view though would be from a more timeless perspective of the capability itself to access or construct those distinctions and less a matter of the specific distinctions available at a particular moment.

[melanie]

Thanks for the video link, Melanie.

You're very welcome Steve. Thanks for your interest.

[melanie]

It seems that the human brain not only has the capacity for being intelligent, but is the result of an intelligence gathering.

The brain is far too complex for the brain to understand.

That should tell you all you need to know.

[melanie]

No God has ever been seen. All things apparently seen are known and exist only as concept one with the knowing.

But then we could say that which is seen is God - but that which is seen/known is seen/known by that which cannot be seen/known.

Yet, things are seen and known by the one who sees and knows... but could one thing exist?

Appears to be a trickless trick(Illusion) ...... shocking isn't it?

[melanie]

For some the 'God word' points to the ultimate subject which cannot be made into an object.

An object's reality exists only in a word.

In other words Reality makes no sense.


(Might as well live a meaningful life - eat - drink - be merry - get fat - be lazy - be crazy - then die a meaningless death)

[melanie]

The brain is far too complex for the brain to understand.

That should tell you all you need to know.

There is no such thing as ''intelligent design'' except as an idea.

If it were true then I would be intelligent, but I'm not.

[melanie]

The idea of a God either a big guy in the sky or the new agey loving force, fulfil's the same function,it soothes the frightened mind. The concept of intelligent design is a hold over from the primitive mind of man groping to understand its conceptual pseudo-reality. It's all just a story made from concepts & meaning. The word 'God' is meaningless, it cannot be conceived,just like the word consciousness,or awareness.In other words Reality makes no sense whatsoever.