[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by melanie

Lovely thanks michael,
what you say here, reminded me of a very simple and beautiful message in the following video [The nature of Zen] it is well worth watching this little gem.

Thanks for the reminder michael

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_4Z5DZcNM

love melanie.

Many thanks for the link Melanie,Zen has had an profound effect upon me over the years,
I once tried for a while to listen for the sound of "one hand clapping"all I could hear was my tinnitus ringing bells!!


warm regards mchael.

[MJA]

Dear fellow true searchers,
you are on a great path here.

If I might humbly add to it I would simply say that my hand is obviously different than my foot, yet they are both equally and also obviously the oneness or wholeness of me.

Uniting the universe then, is simply a change of thought.
TOE!

=
MJA

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by MJA

Dear fellow true searchers,
you are on a great path here.

If I might humbly add to it I would simply say that my hand is obviously different than my foot, yet they are both equally and also obviously the oneness or wholeness of me.

Uniting the universe then, is simply a change of thought.
TOE!

=
MJA

Am most grateful for your input here MJA,the differences are there to allow the fullest
expression of existence to become fully realised,thereby transcending the illusional
temporal relative universe.

regards michael.

[Fluent Piffle]

Originally Posted by MJA

Dear fellow true searchers,
you are on a great path here.

If I might humbly add to it I would simply say that my hand is obviously different than my foot, yet they are both equally and also obviously the oneness or wholeness of me.

Uniting the universe then, is simply a change of thought.
TOE!

=
MJA

I think so, MJA.


The One is the many, and the many are the One! - But I am not content with just saying this, or copying other peoples' words regarding it. I think we all can know this for ourselves, and this is the 'experience' I was trying to convey. Also, if this is a Cosmological truth, as i feel it to be, it must also be deduce-able from a scientific angle, and I feel that it is also just a matter of time before the language of science adjusts itself accordingly.

I think that where the 'disciplines' connect mostly is at the very thin line between 'spirituality' and 'psychology'. In fact, I think 'psychology' is the (western) evolutionary continuation...(possibly explains why the likes of Jung, et al, had their 'feet in both camps', so to speak).

Not a fan of 'illusion', as I do not think it correctly describes the Reality state, and also does not allow much of a reconciliation with the equally necessary sciences. However, Humans certainly need a 'wake-up call' of some kind, so maybe 'sleep' is an apt metaphor? I think the 'illusion' pertains to our ideologies of 'superior-ness' (with their unconscious 'shadows' of inferiority in tow). Also, I think it is an 'old-time' conception, which may no longer need to be considered 'gospel', even among 'spiritual thinkers'. The Real is far more wondrous, in my opinion, and there are ways in which we may see it as so.

But the 'noumena', far from being a kind of 'non-being', is a very Real connection to the rest of the 'many', existing also, and as a Dynamic Unity. We are just becoming culturally aware of the fact, rather than having a few 'prophetic' individuals and their 'teachings' to rely on. Perhaps this is one of the consequences of 'freedom' of thought? We allow ourselves freedom enough to do our own searching, and Naturally trace ourselves back to our One and only Truth.




pif.

[mkirkpatrick]

Thanks pif,until we experience that which IS,it is but a theory,a possibility,it is in the direct
experiencing that we move from belief to knowing.I know noumena is real,I have been into its closed opening (pardon the Zen)but this describes it from my experience.

I have read many books "about" the one and the many but it was not until I experienced
IT myself that IT really meant something,I no longer believed,I knew!

I have also listened to many masters both living in the physical body and out of it! And
although I learned much,i have learned far,far more from within my Being?

All the time we talk "about"truth"Reality,we are at once caught out in a lie!Because truth
and reality are always within the ever present now,not in the "about".We have to become
the truth and become the visible embodiment of reality,we are IT and IT=IS=nessless.


This is what Jesus meant when he said,"I am the way" the truth and the light"this has
to been mentioned by other great teachers of mankind down throgh the ages.

We have to directly experience this,then we know,this i feel is our task while here on
this little ball called earth.


regards michael.

[Fluent Piffle]

Hi Michael, here is a glimpse of my current understanding...

I do not think we are 'on' the Earth, I think we ARE the Earth. It has 'grown' extensions of itself, evolved them to become 'conscious', not intentionally, but as the Natural motions of whatever it is possible to do.

Earth, having the 'right' ingredients within it, would just need to be in a flux of motion, for an inevitable moment when like-frequencies would meet, and bind.

This is the 'emergent consciousness' scenario, which I know you are not a great 'fan' of, but this scenario is still compatible with the 'noumena' idea, above. If you think about it, the notion of a 'Oneness' is actually more compatible with the idea that we ARE the Earth, as opposed to being 'separate' entities, merely 'along for the ride', so to speak. This also allows the 'other' forms of Earth-consciousness, some of which are far in advance of the Human (sound/sonar-consciousness, visual/spectrum-consciousness, etc, which we are only just now beginning to understand of other creatures) - to have equal application, of an Earth, which is, after all, their 'creator' also.

I feel that we must be mindful of all possible aspects, before 'deciding' that 'Humans' are the authority, and that their host Planet, including its 'other' inhabitants, is something 'less'.

This is just my assessment, giving you the opportunity to understand another point of view, should you wish to, of course.


Thanks for your time with this, by the way!



pif.

[mkirkpatrick]

[quote=Fluent Piffle;46668]Hi Michael, here is a glimpse of my current understanding...

I do not think we are 'on' the Earth, I think we ARE the Earth. It has 'grown' extensions of itself, evolved them to become 'conscious', not intentionally, but as the Natural motions of whatever it is possible to do.

Earth, having the 'right' ingredients within it, would just need to be in a flux of motion, for an inevitable moment when like-frequencies would meet, and bind.

This is the 'emergent consciousness' scenario, which I know you are not a great 'fan' of, but this scenario is still compatible with the 'noumena' idea, above. If you think about it, the notion of a 'Oneness' is actually more compatible with the idea that we ARE the Earth, as opposed to being 'separate' entities, merely 'along for the ride', so to speak. This also allows the 'other' forms of Earth-consciousness, some of which are far in advance of the Human (sound/sonar-consciousness, visual/spectrum-consciousness, etc, which we are only just now beginning to understand of other creatures) - to have equal application, of an Earth, which is, after all, their 'creator' also.

I feel that we must be mindful of all possible aspects, before 'deciding' that 'Humans' are the authority, and that their host Planet, including its 'other' inhabitants, is something 'less'.

This is just my assessment, giving you the opportunity to understand another point of view, should you wish to, of course.


Thanks for your time with this, by the way!



pif.[/quot

You are more than welcome pif,thanks too for your sharing of the way you see it.

Gaia is the name that springs to mind pif when reading your thoughts about the earth
she is like our mother and we her children!

The sun then could be the father!

regards michael.

[Fluent Piffle]

[quote=mkirkpatrick;46670]

Originally Posted by Fluent Piffle

Hi Michael, here is a glimpse of my current understanding...

I do not think we are 'on' the Earth, I think we ARE the Earth. It has 'grown' extensions of itself, evolved them to become 'conscious', not intentionally, but as the Natural motions of whatever it is possible to do.

Earth, having the 'right' ingredients within it, would just need to be in a flux of motion, for an inevitable moment when like-frequencies would meet, and bind.

This is the 'emergent consciousness' scenario, which I know you are not a great 'fan' of, but this scenario is still compatible with the 'noumena' idea, above. If you think about it, the notion of a 'Oneness' is actually more compatible with the idea that we ARE the Earth, as opposed to being 'separate' entities, merely 'along for the ride', so to speak. This also allows the 'other' forms of Earth-consciousness, some of which are far in advance of the Human (sound/sonar-consciousness, visual/spectrum-consciousness, etc, which we are only just now beginning to understand of other creatures) - to have equal application, of an Earth, which is, after all, their 'creator' also.

I feel that we must be mindful of all possible aspects, before 'deciding' that 'Humans' are the authority, and that their host Planet, including its 'other' inhabitants, is something 'less'.

This is just my assessment, giving you the opportunity to understand another point of view, should you wish to, of course.


Thanks for your time with this, by the way!



pif.[/quot

You are more than welcome pif,thanks too for your sharing of the way you see it.

Gaia is the name that springs to mind pif when reading your thoughts about the earth
she is like our mother and we her children!

The sun then could be the father!

regards michael.

...and 'Gravity', the Holy (g)host!!


Yes, I do like James Lovelock's 'Gaia' Hypothesis. Things that make sense to me from as many angles as I can perceive, I tend to like. From there, I just keep collecting 'angles'! - I figure that if I get enough of them, I will eventually form a sphere of understanding that points outwards in Infinite directions...



pif.

[mkirkpatrick]

Yes pif,it is the angle of the dangle that will eventually unrangle the awful tangle that we
have made!

I agree that it is a good idea to get a wider perspective as we can on the whole vision
of appearances as they can be exceedingly deceptive!

Our Eureka moment is when we eventually find ourselves,then the rest just "falls" into
place?Not gravity driven though!


regards michael.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

Yes pif,it is the angle of the dangle that will eventually unrangle the awful tangle that we
have made!

I agree that it is a good idea to get a wider perspective as we can on the whole vision
of appearances as they can be exceedingly deceptive!

Our Eureka moment is when we eventually find ourselves,then the rest just "falls" into
place?Not gravity driven though!


regards michael.

Lovely michael,

also i thought you might like to check out this link.. if you haven't done already.
you'll have to scroll down the page to find some interesting articles at the bottom.

http://www.shiningthroughthemind.net/pages/home.aspx

also here is an excerpt from that link.....you might find interesting...


It is called "One Essence appearing as Everything". - It is a potent book and will prove to be quite popular once word gets out about it.
Some requests for more notes came in. - What has not been said already? - How many times is it necessary to hear or read this stuff. - I am quite amazed at how the expressions keep spilling out here. - There appear to be so many ways to 'point' at IT. - It is extremely simple and yet that is why it is so difficult to see - it fact it cannot be seen and there is no seer to see it. - It is that which is seeing. - Knowing that, then all one needs to do is see that everything appears in THAT spacious awareness. - There is nothing that can appear anywhere other than in awareness.
Everything you see is actually awareness appearing as this and that - and 'you' cannot separate what you see from what is truly seeing. - Awareness is SEEING. - Awareness is also appearing as every thing. - This is obvious but thinking about it makes it seem complex. - It is thought that appears to be complex. - We take the concept to be real and get into trouble.
There is no separation anywhere - and so there cannot be any separation between these two aspects of awareness. - What you are APPEARS to be an individual, yet when you investigate it, you find nothing of any substance except the apparent substance of experienc-ING - which may appear to you as a like dimensionless membrane between these aspects - awareness and 'things'. - You and the world. - But are you separate from any of the elements, air, water, earth, fire (the body is warm from the inner fire) or space?
The body is a living vehicle which appears to be a host for awareness - yet it is nothing but awareness.
One can sense the living force pulsating therein - Because there is awareness of that life force, it means that what you are is even prior to that.
When that single cell divided after fertilization there was no true separation - it was totally happening within a vast integrated wholeness - No Boundary anywhere.
The world cannot appear unless what you are is there first - yet the world is nothing but the immediacy of THAT appearing as OTHER - What is truly One - appears as multiplicity.

Love melanie.