[mkirkpatrick]

When I first heard the expression "reality just is" I said is what!IS,is the noumena,
unexplained,but instead "realized" from within,a rising up from within the universal
ocean of consciousness,and downloading via the non-physical mind,into the physical
brain.
IS,is about understanding that reality cannot ever be explained,only realized from
within the soul/mind.
The noumena is us at our deepest level,at our deepest level we are IS?

And when we understand that truth,we will never be able to explain it fully to anyone
as it can "only" be realized from within.
Is can stand for whatever we wish it to be,here are some ideas of mine,Infinite sound,spirit,soul,self,suchness,serenity,and so on.

We are Noumena,we are IS,our task is to understand fully what that means,then find
the way to individually realize this for ourselves,and make it our personal-impersonal
reality!

tbc

regards michael.

[MJA]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick The noumena is us at our deepest level,at our deepest level we are IS? . We are Noumena,we are IS,our task is to understand fully what that means,then find the way to individually realize this for ourselves,and make it our personal-impersonal reality! tbc regards michael.

Well done Michael,

I would suggest you try exchanging the word "deepest" in your sentence for something much easier to comprehend. Try the word (simplest), or( most simple) in your sentence, and by doing so, finding TOE is simply "what is."

Thanks,

=
MJA

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by MJA Well done Michael, I would suggest you try exchanging the word "deepest" in your sentence for something much easier to comprehend. Try the word (simplest), or( most simple) in your sentence, and by doing so, finding TOE is simply "what is." Thanks, = MJA

Many thanks for your kindly suggestion MJA,deepest fits best for me though.To look
within at great depth-there is the answer.



regards michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

I want to say here,Stop looking for the noumena-You are It! Wake up and realize this
simple elementary reality.We "all" are physical symbols of a deeper most profound reality.
We are "IS" that which mankind has been searching for these many centuries past,(The IS is not lost,we are?)When we look outward we become as a blind man groping in the dark,it is only when we look within that the "light" is lit.

Give up searching,instead look within,there you will be united with the infinite self or IS?


tbc


regards michael

[Graybeard]

Quote from another thread 'Do noumena exist?' ..... ( to go to that thread, click on the little gray arrow in the quote box )

Originally Posted by Robert ....... I would like to suggest that qualia is a better term for what you are describing. I would say that noumena is a property of a thing that cannot be perceived by our senses. A thing is, in reality, different from what we perceive it to be. The phenomena then is how we experience the thing through our senses. The qualia is what emerges in our minds as our subjective experience of this organism/environment interface.

If the word 'Noumena' is in essence the opposite of the word 'Phenomena', where the word phenomena means that which our five senses perceive, then the word noumena must mean that which we cannot perceive with our five senses.

But this then poses the question, what is there that we don't perceive with our senses. I would suggest that in the absence of our senses that which we perceive would be very, very limited. Like growing up in a dark room where you are not allowed to even touch the walls.

Phenomena, it would seem, is the richer of the two. Feeding our imagination with variety of the universe around us. As well as providing the facts, or the true reality of all which is 'outside' ourselves.

The following story is taken from the Wiki ....

Mary the colour scientist knows all the physical facts about colour, including every physical fact about the experience of colour in other people, from the behavior a particular colour is likely to elicit, to the specific sequence of neurological firings that register that a colour has been seen. However, she has been confined from birth to a room that is black and white, and is only allowed to observe the outside world through a black and white monitor. When she is allowed to leave the room, it must be admitted that she learns something about the colour red the first time she sees it — specifically, she learns what it is like to see that colour

Mary's experience is a 'phenomena', the idea, and eventual writing of the analogy of 'mary' could not have occurred without the qualified existence of some form of 'noumena'

ergo: they both exist, but phenomena alone reveals reality

For the Spiritual among us, this means 'Trust in God, but tie your camel first' .


cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

by the way, if you ever thought the wiki is infallible, peruse this little pearl of wisdom

from the wiki ..... Unobservables are entities whose existence, nature, properties, qualities or relations are not observable. .

greg

[MJA]

Thanks Greg,

That was exceptionally well done!

Which leads me to this question: What is the true colour of red?

Is it Mary's red?
Your red?
My red?
Or nature's red?

If we are searching for truth, is not truth self evident?

As far as tying up camels, I don't have one.
But the way we are drying up this planet, I'm sure gonna need one!
Aint that the natural truth?

=

MJA

[mkirkpatrick]

Noumena is the outpost of willed intent,we are the visible result of "in -depth thinking"
noumena is what we ARE!

Greg old mate,you do not need an internet dictionary to suggest your origin,just look
into the mirror,then ask yourself the question,am I the outworking of noumena made
tangible and visible by a cloak of relativity wrapped around me,and await an affirmative
reply,it always does,it cannot fail as it is locked into your very Essence of being!


tbc


regards michael.

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by MJA Which leads me to this question: What is the true colour of red? Is it Mary's red? Your red? My red? Or nature's red? If we are searching for truth, is not truth self evident?

Dear MJA .... As you provide nothing in your profile to the contrary I can only assume that I am debating with someone who knows almost nothing about the rules of debate. No doubt you think that Authors should be judged only by the quality of their writings. That their writings should stand alone. That ALL is EQUAL.

Don't be frightened, put your stats out there. Schoolgirl, Professor or Zealot, don't be ashamed of your position.

The first thing you need to learn is to read what the other person wrote before replying. Robert has placed a link in the rules of this forum that would benefit you enormously. It has certainly benefited me.

Here is the link that Robert has provided on fallacious arguments that should be avoided if possible. I have been guilty of many infringements myself.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Your quote comes under the very first one on the list 'Red Herring'

Why? ........ Do I really need to tell you?

Ok ... Listen up ..


Mary knows all about COLOUR in all its variety and diversity ONLY thru her noumena.

Mary has experienced only TWO colours thru her Phenomena.

When Mary leaves the room for the first time she experiences a Third, Fourth, Fifth, etc colours thru her senses which detect Phenomena only.

These experiences were not available to her thru her Noumena, even though she is an expert on colour.

RED has nothing to do with it, you have turned RED into a RED HERRING.

OBVIOUSLY colour is NOT self-evident as you imply. It NEEDS to be a experienced which can only be done by PHENOMENA.

Do you get it?.... Do you see why your reply is fallacious?

Now you take care good buddy (or little missy)....

cool bananas ... greg

PS: Of course we can an always settle this in the Arcade, where Men are Men and Alpha-Males roam free.

[Graybeard]

Michael ..... Which would you rather have:

1 .. Sex thru Noumena ?

2.. Sex thru Phenomena?


Michael ... As I have just been trying to explain to MJA, the reality can only be experienced thru our senses (PHENOMENA)

Later on, after the act, during the post coital period, when you are enjoying that cigarette, thats the time to cogitate on the NOUMENA of the situation.

The NOUMENA feeds off the PHENOMENA. The NOUMENA provides the fantasy, the PHENOMENA provides the reality.

Looking in a mirror and waiting for an affirmative does not even come close to jumping into bed with Samantha Fox, altho it will suffice if times are lean.

ROTFALMAO again and again

cool bananas ... greg