Is Natural Selection a Belief or a Fact

[Graybeard]

When we refer to Natural Selection the below is exactly what we imply. No other variants can be considered as Natural Selection.

Overview

1. Life forms reproduce to make offspring.
2. The offspring differs from the parent in minor random ways.
3. If the differences are helpful, the offspring is more likely to survive and reproduce.
4. This means that more offspring in the next generation will have the helpful difference.
5. These differences accumulate resulting in changes within the population.
6. Over time, this process gradually leads to entirely new types of life.
7. This process is responsible for the many diverse life forms in the world today.

The debate in this thread is:

Can we resolve whether the above is fact or belief ?

I'd be willing to referee .

Bogie is elected chairperson unopposed and unanimous ... lol

greg

[Graybeard]

Bogie ... as chairperson ... you may set the rules or use the default ones below

As long as all participants follow the debate should be fair.


Debate Advice and Suggestions
Advice on Debating with Others

1. Avoid the use of Never.
2. Avoid the use of Always.
3. Refrain from saying you are wrong.
4. You can say your idea is mistaken.
5. Don't disagree with obvious truths.
6. Attack the idea not the person.
7. Use many rather than most.
8. Avoid exaggeration.
9. Use some rather than many.
10. The use of often allows for exceptions.
11. The use of generally allows for exceptions.

1. Quote sources and numbers.
2. If it is just an opinion, admit it.
3. Do not present opinion as facts.
4. Smile when disagreeing.
5. Stress the positive.
6. You do not need to win every battle to win the war.
7. Concede minor or trivial points.
8. Avoid bickering, quarreling, and wrangling.
9. Watch your tone of voice.
10. Don't win a debate and lose a friend.
11. Keep your perspective - You're just debating.

You need to be very polite when disagreeing with someone in English, even someone you know quite well.
With someone you know very well, you can disagree more directly.


greg

[Bogie]

Wow. Did you think I was being serious about refereeing? Didn't I put a smiley on that?

OK, for starters SteveA has to agree with what is to be resolved and then I have to understand some other details.

[SteveA]

We should ask a couple very low level questions as well:

1) What is the cause or source of DNA?

2) Assuming DNA determines the physical form would this impose observational biases? For example, if someone were to use the internet to try to view the world it would appear as flat images and everything would use Internet Protocol etc. We could then assume that if a physical was determined by DNA, then our interactions with the world should remain attached to communication with this DNA.

3) What is the timeline that one experiences? Notice that all available information regarding information arises from sources in the present and these are extrapolated backwards in time with reduced reliability or visibility of actual events. Does consciousness follow the same timeline?

-------------------------------

Those are a few questions that could be worth considering beforehand as they're more fundamental in some ways.

[SteveA]

Wow. Did you think I was being serious about refereeing? Didn't I put a smiley on that?

OK, for starters SteveA has to agree with what is to be resolved and then I have to understand some other details.

It appears I was posting while you posted this. I don't mind having a discussion on evolution.

[SteveA]

When we refer to Natural Selection the below is exactly what we imply. No other variants can be considered as Natural Selection.

Overview

1. Life forms reproduce to make offspring.
2. The offspring differs from the parent in minor random ways.
3. If the differences are helpful, the offspring is more likely to survive and reproduce.
4. This means that more offspring in the next generation will have the helpful difference.
5. These differences accumulate resulting in changes within the population.
6. Over time, this process gradually leads to entirely new types of life.
7. This process is responsible for the many diverse life forms in the world today.

The debate in this thread is:

Can we resolve whether the above is fact or belief ?



Bogie is elected chairperson unopposed and unanimous ... lol

greg

I've actually accepted most everything here to be true (though as my previous comment regards, there could be lower level things to consider as well) and I've similar techniques for genetic algorithms in some technical designs.

What did you want to debate? In terms of a physical timeline of life, though there are question marks, I don't normally assume evolution to be incorrect, though the cause of evolution is an interesting question ... what drives evolution in the universe and what's the fundamental source of forms upon which life is built?

[Graybeard]

what drives evolution in the universe and what's the fundamental source of forms upon which life is built?

ummmm .... Natural Selection drives it ? I think that in Lloyd's thread we were arguing over whether or not all the complexity and magnificence we see around us could have arisen from such a banal step as a random action or event ... which led to more random actions and events ... which led to mo......... etc

I said yes .....

You said no ... ??

cool bananas ... greg

[Bogie]

I insist we speak English. Is that a problem to anyone? And I will determine what is English and what is not. If I ask you to restate something in English you will rephase it .

[Bogie]

One rule has to be that though there may be some disagreement as to the outcome, my decision will be ignored.

[Bogie]

SteveA, please cut and paste from post #1 and then state in English, simple numbered additions or changes (OK,)?