[mkirkpatrick]

I think therefore I am,but just what is this,thing,that thinks/ am I the
body,that looks back at me in the mirror,this outer manifestation of
form,or am I a thinking,conscious,soul,who is only using this vechicle
of a body,to gain entrance into the phenomenal world of expression.

In meditation,I have often left the body,and travelled,to many places,
all just as real,as getting on a plane and going,and of course,much cheaper.

Astral travelling too I have been involved in,and have many times
observed my outer body either sitting in a chair,or lying on a bed;
awaiting the owners return.

I think that Life does not need a body at all to express itself.except
maybe in the form of a soul.
regards michael.

[Guille]

Descartes said that "Cogito, ergo sum" because the only thing of which you can be sure, really sure, is that you think. Do you deny this? If you deny this, then you must be thinking to deny, and so, you think.

Philosophers state things for reasons, why do you think that this sentence has become the most famous out of all philosophy? It was developped very intelligently, and in a way that proved itself.

[mkirkpatrick]

As I think therefore I am,absolutely,Descartes called this argument his
Archimedes Point,Thought reigns supreme,el-supremo?Whether we travel on
the inner or the outer realms of consciousness,the common denominator is
mindful presence.How is it that consciousness which seems so non-material
can take on the material forms we experience?How do "space time",colour,
sound,texture,substance,and the many other qualities that we associate
with the material world,emerge in consciousness?What is the process of
manifestation within the mind?Whatever we may be conscious of the faculty
of consciousness is something we all share,consciousness is the one truth we
cannot deny.It is the absolute certainty of our existance.Within our minds we
can and indeed do,tune into the "sounds" of the inner and outer spheres!

kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

Descartes should have said I feel therefore I am. Thinking can be illusory. Many logical and illogical traps await the being who only relies on thinking. The existentialist took this thought and massacred it by thinking and dissection. Unfortunately, conscious thought has served only to divide us, thus far. Or perhaps he should have said, I am aware and therefore I am, as awareness encompasses both thinking and feeling. Mindful presence also covers it, Michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl Descartes should have said I feel therefore I am. Thinking can be illusory. Many logical and illogical traps await the being who only relies on thinking. The existentialist took this thought and massacred it by thinking and dissection. Unfortunately, conscious thought has served only to divide us, thus far. Or perhaps he should have said, I am aware and therefore I am, as awareness encompasses both thinking and feeling. Mindful presence also covers it, Michael.

A point worth noting,Harmony.

regards michael.

[Guille]

Actually, in philosophy we use the definitions given by Locke. 'Thought' is all the processes that occurs in the mind, and 'idea' is all the objects that are in the mind. So feelings, as part of subconsciousness, are aprt of the 'thought' and 'idea'. Thought is not only rational.

[Mohan.C]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick As I think therefore I am,absolutely,Descartes called this argument his Archimedes Point,Thought reigns supreme,el-supremo?Whether we travel on the inner or the outer realms of consciousness,the common denominator is mindful presence.How is it that consciousness which seems so non-material can take on the material forms we experience?How do "space time",colour, sound,texture,substance,and the many other qualities that we associate with the material world,emerge in consciousness?What is the process of manifestation within the mind?Whatever we may be conscious of the faculty of consciousness is something we all share,consciousness is the one truth we cannot deny.It is the absolute certainty of our existance.Within our minds we can and indeed do,tune into the "sounds" of the inner and outer spheres! kind regards michael.

Michael I have not heard of Descartes. But I do think about this stuff. Our concious can think of the material world because we live in the material world. If we could transcend this body and mind then it will be only the concious that remains which gives us the reality of our existence. And take higher up than the illusions [sound colour texture etc.] that we have converted into realities for our own convinience. As you say you have travelled far and wide and experienced astral travelling. It will not be difficult for you to understand this.
I would like to know how you felt in your experiences of meditation and astral travellings.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Mohan.C Michael I have not heard of Descartes. But I do think about this stuff. Our concious can think of the material world because we live in the material world. If we could transcend this body and mind then it will be only the concious that remains which gives us the reality of our existence. And take higher up than the illusions [sound colour texture etc.] that we have converted into realities for our own convinience. As you say you have travelled far and wide and experienced astral travelling. It will not be difficult for you to understand this. I would like to know how you felt in your experiences of meditation and astral travellings.

It felt my friend to put it very briefly,like being released from a confined space,and being
able to soar and expand all at the same time!


regards michael.

[mkirkpatrick]

Sleep has been called the first cousin of death,each night we rehearse the ritual of passing from this world into the astral realm,few of us remember these sojourns,but there
are also many who do.

Each night as we sleep,we leave our dense physical body and move into our astral body
which at this stage in our evolution is the exact replica of our physical body.

It is a cycle of "off and on" while we are awake we are "on" to being conscious within the physical plane,when we sleep,we are "off" to the physical plane and "on" to the astral
plane,where we our every bit as conscious as we are on the earth plane,(more so in fact)

tbc



regards michael.

[N0B0DY]

"If we could transcend this body and mind then it will be only the concious that remains which gives us the reality of our existence."

Above, Mohan seems to have implied that it is possible to retain the "conscious" eventhough transcending the body and mind.

Could you explain that one, Michael?