| | | | 6th degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 844
Thanks Given: 43
Thanked 15x in 15 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2006 Rep Power: 18 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 10:34 AM
Interesting. I guess I would ask 'came from where?' and point out that the entire question is irrelevant speculation. The first is only interesting if it is the beginning of something. The first is not interesting if it is the only - Djanet Sears | |
| | | | | | 2nd degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 292
Thanks Given: 1
Thanked 19x in 18 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2005 Rep Power: 15 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 12:41 PM
We, the universe did not come from anywhere, we were always here in some shape or form. The questions of where, when, how and why are related to our finite mind's inability to imagine infinity.
It does not mean that we should give up the search for more answers, it only provides us with one more way of viewing back beyond 12.7 billion years. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin | |
| | | | | | 6th degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 844
Thanks Given: 43
Thanked 15x in 15 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2006 Rep Power: 18 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 03:20 PM
so both the chicken and the egg were always here...no one was 'first'... The first is only interesting if it is the beginning of something. The first is not interesting if it is the only - Djanet Sears | |
| | | | | | 2nd degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 292
Thanks Given: 1
Thanked 19x in 18 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2005 Rep Power: 15 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 04:11 PM
Well, if you are trying to be literal with the topic, then I'd have to say that the egg came first. The egg laying scheme evolved with the dinosaurs and reptiles and it is widely accepted that birds are descendants of dinosaurs.
My point is though, where did the initial energy and matter come from? Where did all this stuff we see originate?. In accordance to inflationary theory, matter may have been created out of an inflaton field that jumped to a non 0 minimum or a phase transition when the nuclear force began breaking away from the weak and electromagnetic forces by the cooling process. That would have crerated enourmous inflation and would have released energy for matter creation once it was settled. This field would represent the seed for infinite reality. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin | |
| | | | | | 6th degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 844
Thanks Given: 43
Thanked 15x in 15 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2006 Rep Power: 18 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 04:36 PM
given the view that there was no origin, they didn't come from anywhere... The first is only interesting if it is the beginning of something. The first is not interesting if it is the only - Djanet Sears | |
| | | | | | 2nd degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 292
Thanks Given: 1
Thanked 19x in 18 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2005 Rep Power: 15 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 05:08 PM
No origin or creation of initial energy does not mean the negation of all creation. The initial energy that set this cosmic epoch into action was and is always there, just in different forms, energy is not created nor destroyed, it only gets converted. Perhaps you are right and one can say that technically there never was and never will be any creation but only conversions.
I think that one can deduce that the first law of thermodynamics is perhaps the only law that does not show an evolutionary path, but an absolute nature. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin | |
| | | The Following User Says Thank You to Mr. Nobody For This Useful Post: | | | | | | Blue Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 129
Thanks Given: 0
Thanked 18x in 16 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2006 Rep Power: 9 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-26-2006, 11:20 PM
Mr. Nobody,
Inflationary theory hypothesizes the expansion of the very fabric of space-time. That well-known analogy of the expansion of a balloon is usually given to depict the concept. Yet, the balloon requires a place in order to expand; whereas according to inflationary theory, there was no space or time (place) before the inflationary era. So what exactly did the space-time fabric expand into? | |
| | | | | | 2nd degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 292
Thanks Given: 1
Thanked 19x in 18 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2005 Rep Power: 15 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-27-2006, 10:40 AM
Expansion of___into___ is an invalid expression for lack of the proper terms to describe the expansion of a whole.
Look at it this way. The expansion of the balloon represents a 4-dimensional (space with time) model depicted as a 2 dimensional example. Only the surface of the balloon is spacetime (you have to sqeeze space down to just 2 dimensions), so expansion of space into space is not how you should look at that example, but a 2-dimensional object into 3-dimensional space.
Which leads you to the answer. 4 dimensional space-time will expand into the next dimension, a 5th one. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin | |
| | | | | | 2nd degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 292
Thanks Given: 1
Thanked 19x in 18 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2005 Rep Power: 15 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-27-2006, 10:53 AM
Spacially there is nothing outside the cosmos. I have once posed a question of what would happen if one could block the cosmic background radiation within a sphere? Would that create a whole in space, since the EMR is all permeating and a fundamental attribute of all space, and to take that idea even further, is that what black holes do in the core? Is the core of a black hole made up of the same spacial void as the outside of the cosmos and therefore connected? Is the cosmos really like cheese after all (green cheese-moon, lol)? "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin | |
| | | | | | 2nd degree Black Belt
Status: Offline Posts: 292
Thanks Given: 1
Thanked 19x in 18 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2005 Rep Power: 15 | Re: The Chicken or The Egg -
07-27-2006, 12:03 PM
Another way of looking at it is that the observable universe is expanding. Postulating that the total spatial expanse of the universe to be infinite, one can say that the part we can see, the part that we receive information from, is expanding. That way, there is infinity outside of what we can see.
If expansion continues at current rate we may lose information from anything that is not gravitationally bound to our galactic local group.
If expansion continues to increase (as observation show, perhaps due to increasing vacuum energy) then the fundamental forces will become so diluted that nothing can be held together anymore and reality will melt away into infinite darkness "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin | |
| | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | |
Similar Threads | | Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post | | Time | DHiMac | Time Travel | 366 | 07-21-2008 01:18 PM | | Loooking for philosophers | Gil | General Philosophy | 80 | 04-10-2008 02:36 AM |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8 Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com | |