I'll tell you why we are mortal.

[sillysally]

I've been discussing this over at my regular hang out at Frostcloud and I thought I would bring it here. I just copied and pasted some of my words that don't sound like part of a conversation is missing. I also did a little minor editing because I think the idea is now complete.

Why the conscious and soul need a body is a law of physics, you need an emulsifer to make it stick. Oil and water, the 2 remain separate because water is a polar molecule, it has a positive (good conscious) charged end and a negative (bad conscious) charged end. Oil (the physical body) is not a polar molecule so it isn't attracted to water (consciousness). What is the emulsifer? Soul, a force of nature.

If the soul is the emulsifier to a conscious and the body does not continue forever physically, then the soul is the life force of the body. The polarity of the conscious is good and bad, and you want a soul to stick to both to make the determination of good and bad. It's like a weight.

If it were an element, it would look like this; -+|+-, I think, what do you think? I'm trying to balence the polarities with negative and positive elements, the emulsifier sticks yet it breaks down both sides causing eventual physical death. So the soul (emulsifier or fabric), also exists before physical life, it would have to because it takes over as the force of life.

So the soul and conscious would not be a form of life or death outside of a body because the combination is what kills us. How long can a person survive on a life support machine without being conscious? That may be one way to achieve physical immortality, although we wouldn't be aware of it so it makes no difference.

Wow, the soul and conscious is stronger than life and death and seems to have something against the physical body. I don't know what hates myself more, the soul or conscious. Sounds likes something a vegetable would say, totally unaware of what plans on eating me alive and why.

But all in all, I'd say the soul and conscious is like weather, a force of nature that is unpredictable (in some cases). It can cause serious destruction or be bright and sunny other times. But ultimately, everything gets weathered in time.

[mkirkpatrick]

Many thanks sillysally for your opening thread.you made some interesting observations,
what is the emulsifer that keeps us together?What indeed SS,first we need to fully
understand "what is us",long ago I was made aware of a very important distinction,
which is "that we are souls with bodies,and NOT bodies with souls"!We are primary!The
body, physical body that is,is secondary,and is used as a vehicle to express expansion
and understanding of self aware consciousness,to grow through the kindergarden,to
school,college,and finally to university,this of course takes many "vehicles"!

The physical body is just a vehicle,and permits expression and growth,no more.

How many times haveyou changed your car Silly Sally??


regards michael.

[sillysally]

Thanks for moving this to the right place. There are so many topics and if it's all about TOE, why does it matter where the subject goes? It all looks the same to me, everything would go in one place. Nevermind.

How many times haveyou changed your car Silly Sally??

I'm on my 10th one, however the one I have now is the first one that wasn't brand spanking new.

The emulsifier is the soul, but it works against a conscious and physical body. Think of the soul being like soap, the conscious being water and the physical body the oil. Once we begin life, the aging process starts, the soap begins to wear away the oil but needs water. That also explains the biblical perspective that the physical body is "dirty" and sinful.

But as far as DNA goes, I believe that people come back with the same genetic make-up as long as their blood line remains clean (not necessarily through incest but within cultures). There is no memory but the personality is the same and it would take scientist hundreds of years after this age to continually do DNA testing within the same culture so long as the people being tested continue to marry and procreate within it. Take my family for example, my father was the last of a line of 13 generations being the first born son to carry on the family name. My sister and I are the 14th generation but, my dad's younger brother has a new beginning with his first born son, so the tradition of carrying the name get's passed through him, so long as he keeps "clean" but he was born 1/2 American (his mother doesn't know her family history) and it may be over for my uncles blood line. However, I married a man from the same culture and he was his dad's first born son but his dad wasn't the first boy, so a new name in our family begins with my husband but we have a baby girl and we just started the family.

So, it doesn't end as far as coming back after being dead but I figure if we can understand how and why we age, it would be better than believing there is something mystical behind death. Take Adam and Eve, they lived for approximately 900 years, although time could have been measured differently back then and once I did figured that 900 would be close to around 230 years because the earth was spinning faster then. Or it could be that it was 900 years of them being conscious, but they died and I'm not sure when their souls came into the picture or even if they had any. What do you think? How can a person survive without life in them but be conscious with a physical body?

[sillysally]

Wait a minute, I don't think Adam and Eve had conscious because they acted out against authority and lied. They lived long because they had no water (conscious) to wash the oil (body) off with soap (soul/life). Did they die of natural causes or accidents? Does the bible say?

Damn, they were like a couple of vegetables in a garden. That's messed up, but if you think about it, there still are millions of people that don't seem to have a conscious. Just like their kids, one of them killed the other, did he develope a conscious after the crime? Do we have to do stupid things to be aware of what we have done? Because Adam and Eve didn't become aware that they lied, maybe 900 years later they did but that depends on their cause of death (besides God dooming them to it). How long did the killer brother live?

[mkirkpatrick]

Silly Sally I am glad your new car is old?I personally have never driven a car,never owned a car,and have never been in the slightest bit interested in owning,or buying one,
as I am now in my sixth decade,prehaps I will not bother!


Could you prehaps expound on the meaning of this,Quote SillySally,"how can a person
survive without life in them,but be conscious with a physical body"unquote??

The Adam and Eve story are purely myths,and every culture world wide has their own
version of the story,just as the Great-flood is told in every land.

The DNA you talk about is interesting,chromosomes are the carriers of genetic markers,
and each race,or family? Have their distinctive markers.
These are no doubt carried over.

There have been many reported accounts of "past memories" (previous lives) being
brought to the surface of individuals consciousness,and this has been explained as
a sort of (chromosome time lapse)where the hormones secreted into the body,"awoke"
these distant memories.

regards michael.

[sillysally]

Silly Sally I am glad your new car is old?I personally have never driven a car,never owned a car,and have never been in the slightest bit interested in owning,or buying one,
as I am now in my sixth decade,prehaps I will not bother!

Yes, my new car is old. I wish I could get away with never driving! I'd like the attention that would come with the drivers.

Could you prehaps expound on the meaning of this,Quote SillySally,"how can a person
survive without life in them,but be conscious with a physical body"unquote??

That was a moment or so before I realized it was their conscious missing. But since you ask, I suppose a person surviving without life in them but are conscious to an extent with a physical body would probably be a very dangerous person.

The Adam and Eve story are purely myths,and every culture world wide has their own
version of the story,just as the Great-flood is told in every land.

I believe that human consciousness began at some point in time, the Adam and Eve story appear to expound on it. Unless there is older documentation, do you know of any?

There have been many reported accounts of "past memories" (previous lives) being
brought to the surface of individuals consciousness,and this has been explained as
a sort of (chromosome time lapse)where the hormones secreted into the body,"awoke"
these distant memories.

I don't see how it could be a memory. Even if there is a time lapse, the description of that time period would be ambiguous. It would only be a sight seen, and the words can only describe and not actually say exactly what is anything in their surroundings. How come these past lives people never jump into their future lives? See, that's what I'd like to do, see myself in the future and describe that to you.

[mkirkpatrick]

Many thanks for your reply Silly sally,I agree everything in the relative world had a beginning-with regard consciousness,whether that became self conscious with Adam and
Eve,well thats another story?


Past lives,awakened memories,for me are part of what for me is the process of reincar-
-nation or re-embodiment.Which I see as the process of natural law unfolding as the
evolutionary cycle of progression.

I think that when we reach a certain level of balance and equilibrium,prehaps also through
prayer,and meditation and yoga,we are able to contact our Higher selves,which in turn
reveals to us that we are indeed souls with bodies,and not bodies with souls!


regardsmichael.

[sillysally]

Many thanks for your reply Silly sally,I agree everything in the relative world had a beginning-with regard consciousness,whether that became self conscious with Adam and
Eve,well thats another story?

Yeah, another story may be what is needed. Although it may be even more ambiguous, imagine traveling to a time such as the one we live in now and having to describe it to your friends thousands of years ago. It would sound very mystical.

Past lives,awakened memories,for me are part of what for me is the process of reincar-
-nation or re-embodiment.Which I see as the process of natural law unfolding as the
evolutionary cycle of progression.

The cycle of progression puts you forward, not behind.

I think that when we reach a certain level of balance and equilibrium,prehaps also through
prayer,and meditation and yoga,we are able to contact our Higher selves,which in turn
reveals to us that we are indeed souls with bodies,and not bodies with souls!

I don't pray or meditate although the yoga might help with my irritable bowel but not as fast and reliable as having my butt pumped and flushed by a stranger. As for reaching a balance, you still need to move forward, you have past and current without tipping into the future. That kinda leaves you out of balance. What is the past going to resolve as far as knowing your higher self? If it's higher it should have an overview of all life, not just one part.

I have a fear of heights, it's because I fell down steps in my walker when I was a baby, I remember that momement. It had nothing to do with falling off a building in my past life. My subconscious is filled with memories in my current life, many of which I am unaware of. Everything I heard as a baby, even the background tv noise, is a part of my subconscious. That is what molded this life, so there are memories that I cannot explain because I was just passing by but that momement as a baby may have caused me to react violently later in my life to something out of the blue.

If you have memories of some past life, you must have future memories as well and you would be more than bi-polar, maybe just tri-polar. Hmm, I think I will mention this to my psychyatrist and see what he thinks. I haven't met him yet but I will in the future.

[baudrunner]

Hi, sillysally,

Welcome to the quest.

I don't know how you feel about mixing science and theoretical speculation with the pragmatic because that's where I come from. I tend to rain on people's parades.

Any reference, usually biblical, to people living outrageous ages like 800 or 900 years as found in the Book of Genesis actually refers to the phases of the moon. The "year" that is being referred to is actually a month. The primitive minds of those who wrote the stories so many thousands of years ago did not accept real science, likely did not even speak the language of their masters (the Egyptians) who did have some astronomical knowledge, and were not aware of seasonal changes in a land where it was only periodically hot and then somewhat less hot, and not predictably at that. The phases of the moon are an excellent reference in telling time. Try dividing 12 into those large three digit numbers and you get an age which is normal for any time for any reasonably healthy individual who eats well. We only live somewhat longer now because we have better medicines.

You are actually wondering why we can't live forever. I have expounded elsewhere on this site as to the process that determines life to exist but I will skip most of it and give you the short answer. The evolution of a single-celled life with a few nucleotide sequences in them to a single-celled life with a nucleus, or a eukaryote, occurred over a span of 2 billion years. The evolution of eukaryotes into the simplest multi-cellular life, ie.- a bilateral (left and right side) creature with a mouth and an anus, now long extinct, occured over a span of 1.5 billion years; and the evolution from that simple lifeform to humans occurred over a span of 650 million years. So you see, the simple fact is that evolution is an accelerating process. If life had become manifest into one giant infinitely existing sentient intelligent being it would have become obsolete over time. Life must of needs be finite, and continuously in production in order to meet the requirement that it manifests as a matter of course for perpetuity, given the conditions that allow it to do so.

[sillysally]

Hi Baudrunner, I actually have a theory on the biblical life span amount of time.

The earth spun faster then, so a day was equal to 3.42 hours. I have this written out somewhere on the net, I'll find it and copy and past it. I figured it with a beginning at 6,000 years ago (the mountains weren't as high so there was not so much spin lag), and I also figured the first 7 days to amount to a few million (in our current time understanding). Gosh, I think about so many things and right now I can't remember how I came up with the math except that I divided 7 days into 24 hours and the 2 middle days (tuesday and wednesday or thursday), were equal days. They took the longest to create and were more like one big day.

So with time slowing down, we really don't know how old we are.

I'll find it if you are interested. But it might be too simple that it confuses people.