[Elizabeth]

In another thread somewhere on this board, I was asked how one can recognize wisdom. I tried to throw the ball back by stating that an example would be to not do someone's thinking for him when the goal was to encourage thinking, but the ball got thrown back to me...and here we go. I really don't like coming on to a new board and coming off like a know-it-all either, so I am only going to give this ball a little nudge in the right direction, and I expect all of us to contribute until we get the whole picture.

(working backwards) To recognize wisdom, we would have to know what effects wisdom has on what we see - but before that, we would have to know what wisdom is. So let's start there - What is wisdom?

I believe that wisdom involves knowing the right thing to do and doing that, but equally knowing what not to do, and not doing that. I notice a 22 page thread on what is truth and how can we know it - so I will be gone awhile as I absorb that thread. It should be quite pertinant here because the truth is fundamental to what is right and wrong... so perhaps some of you could relate truth to wisdom.

[mkirkpatrick]

Congratulations Elizabeth on an excellent thread starter,for me there is a simple premise
for recognizing wisdom,the first thing to do is to recognize your own ignorance,then when
you have done that,accept it,and use that as a base to acquire understanding,and then
try to understand,cultivate patience,tolerance,and humilty,then by virtue of doing these
very simple but also very difficult things,wisdom will grace you with her presence!


regards michael.

[r.p.bibra]

when there is complete co-ordination between thought, word and deed!.love&regards.ls.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by r.p.bibra when there is complete co-ordination between thought, word and deed!.love&regards.ls.

That my friend makes a trident of power that releases the flow of wisdom!

Thank you.


regards michael.

[Elizabeth]

I also believe that wisdom is the ultimate in utilitarianism - not just for the near term or individual utility, but for the long term broad scope utility.



And Michael, you are a dear gentleman, but please know that if you give me the equivalent of a pat on the head for every answer I give, I'm going to puke. I posted this publicly rather than pm so that any other well-meaning individual will also know what my personal tastes are. I know you mean well and are trying your best to encourage people to stick around, so I thought you might appreciate some feedback regarding your efforts. I know that I appreciate it when people are honest with me, and you strike me as someone who has an appreciation for the truth like I do. Thank you for listening.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I also believe that wisdom is the ultimate in utilitarianism - not just for the near term or individual utility, but for the long term broad scope utility. And Michael, you are a dear gentleman, but please know that if you give me the equivalent of a pat on the head for every answer I give, I'm going to puke. I posted this publicly rather than pm so that any other well-meaning individual will also know what my personal tastes are. I know you mean well and are trying your best to encourage people to stick around, so I thought you might appreciate some feedback regarding your efforts. I know that I appreciate it when people are honest with me, and you strike me as someone who has an appreciation for the truth like I do. Thank you for listening.

Thanks Elizabeth,I will reflect on your words,wisdom is in the understanding,not so much
in the knowing?

regards michael.

[Elizabeth]

I believe so Michael. Knowing is knowledge, which is a little different from wisdom. Knowledge is a component of wisdom, as there is no such thing as an ignorant sage, but knowledge alone is inert.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I believe so Michael. Knowing is knowledge, which is a little different from wisdom. Knowledge is a component of wisdom, as there is no such thing as an ignorant sage, but knowledge alone is inert.

That is so true Elizabeth,I have never met a sage that did not know his onions?

And I have met a few over the years.


regards michael.

[r.p.bibra]

The realization of Brahman (Supreme-Reality) was known by our ancient Seers& Sages as Brahman-Vidhya (knowledge of SR). The realization (knowledge) of SR was known as Gyanam (Jnana) i.e., wisdom. As ‘knowledge of SR is always realized, not learnt by rote, wisdom too is realization, not a theoretical subject. Wisdom is always personal, as it is an individual ‘realisation’ experience of the SR by going through a rigid regimentation of spiritual sadhna (spiritual endeavor). Life long adherence to human, ethical and spiritual values brings in us purity of thought, word and deed. It is a long order but attainable.love&regards.ls

[Elizabeth]

All of these look quite good.

Originally Posted by r.p.bibra Life long adherence to human, ethical and spiritual values

What might those spiritual, ethical, and human values be? Different cultures have different mores - for example in the Middle East it is considered wrong for a woman to not be covered from head to toe, whereas in France, it is acceptable for a woman to be seen topless.

I would like to say that logic would dictate what true values should be, but a Middle Eastern man might say that it is logical to cover a woman from head to to or else the sight would provoke men into sexually assaulting her (and over there she probably would) - yet in other countries, a woman can wear shorts and a T-shirt to a grocery store and expect not to get raped.

I would think that simply doing the best we could within the limits of our awareness and capabilities - while striving to expand both - could be good enough as long as a certain level is ultimatly achieved. That would also allow for one who had made mistakes in the past to still attain wisdom, even without the lifetime achievement.

In the clothing example, we can see the difference because there are differences between the cultures, but what if there are some things that are universally done (or not done) that fall under the same category of logic of the aforementioned Middle Eastern man?

I think an understanding of basic truths as well as cultural overlay is important, as well as prudent choice of when to apply what behaviors. I also think that "prudent choice" rather than "emotional reaction" would be a sign of wisdom - but please bear with me on the terminology here. I believe that a wise person could make a prudent choice of an emotional (appearing) response for a purpose of meeting an ethical ends, and it may appear like an emotional reaction to an observer.

I believe in order to recognize wisdom, one must evaluate each thought and action individually (as an unwise person can sometimes speak wisdom) but also look at the bigger picture to understand the possible complexities of what is the reality behind the appearance.