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01-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Re: What is truth,can we know it?

Illussions are reality, just as dreams are truly dreams.
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01-18-2007, 07:00 PM
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Illussions are reality, just as dreams are truly dreams.
You may have a point there Elizabeth,care to elaborate this a tad more?

regards michael.
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05-23-2007, 08:23 AM
Smile Re: What is truth,can we know it?

The simple truth is what you see is illusion,what you do not see is real-period?



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05-25-2007, 02:21 AM
Re: What is truth,can we know it?

Language is too limited to answer questions about truth definitively. Words, signs and symbols have evolved as social tools to help us cope collectively for our practical needs, not to deal with the nature of universal issues. Truth is an intuitive realization that is largely mute and private. So there is more than one arena of experience involved in the perception and communication of truth.

One’s perception of truth as it relates to phenomenal experience depends upon a fit with one’s personal framework of understanding, which generally has a cultural component. Everyone needs such a framework to function at all. Although frameworks are privately entertained they implicitly transcend and subsume phenomenal experience of all kinds. They transcend space and time. One implicitly believes their framework true for all people for all time. The point is that frameworks of understanding concern the cosmic order. This is true from Grandfather Fire, or the Garden of Eden, to the Big Bang. This is why there is a quest for a Theory of Everything. Is there any hope of accurately formulating an accurate TOE in language alone? I do not think so.

We are back to the divided house of faith and reason that has plagued the history of civilization. Reason and logic are founded on belief. Left to its own devices it becomes closed. Faith is rooted in question and open wonder. It seeks insight into the nature of truth. The former is a left brain linguistic endeavor. The latter is a right brain intuitive quest. It is logic that manipulates language in both science and traditional religion and erodes at the foundations of faith. Faith that there is a transcending basis to truth that can be accessed by an intuitive quest should inform logic, not vice versa.

So direct intuitive insight into the structural dynamics of the cosmic order is what we seek to whatever degree we can achieve it. We seek an insight into how it all works together. This is essential to properly understanding the creative process. Science has accumulated a great many pieces of the jigsaw puzzle but is inept at assembling them together into a coherently working whole. It is the picture on the cover of the puzzle box that we seek.

Is such a holistic vision of creation possible? Is it possible to accurately delineate how the cosmic order works in a way that provides direct intuitive insight into the roots of meaning? Is it possible to do this in a way that is not dependent upon language but from which the meaning in language derives?

I have very good reasons for believing that it is not only possible but necessary at this point in human evolution. There is a non-linguistic way to delineate the structural dynamics of the cosmic order in an open ended series of discrete stages such that it embraces all possible varieties of phenomenal experience. It is introduced along with a number of articles at www.cosmic-mindreach.com. You are invited to have a look.

Best wishes,
Bob Campbell
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05-25-2007, 06:29 AM
Re: What is truth,can we know it?

If truth is antithetical to a deliberately promulgated untruth, what I was taught from childhood is that a lie will circumnavigate any number of worlds as many times before the truth gets so much as an opportunity to put it's shoes on... Somebody authored that but it wasn't me. Though I believe it's the truth.

Another one is:
"Although the devil be the father of lies, he has, like other great inventors, lost much of his reputation by the improvements that have been made upon him." - J. Swift.

Good post. Thank you
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"All things come out of the one and the one out of all things." - Heraclitus
"Reality is an illusion - albeit a persistent one." - Einstein
"Particles give me a headache." - Ibid
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05-25-2007, 07:28 AM
Smile Re: What is truth,can we know it?

Thank you both for a renewed interest in this thread,the way I understand the road to truth and to realizing reality "as it is"and not how we think it should/could be,is to look
within,realize the connections,make the connections,then see all the "apparent" differences,melt into one homogeneous WHOLE!



regards michael.
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06-12-2007, 08:08 PM
Re: What is truth,can we know it?

perhaps it would be a good idea to start with the fundamental truth of what " allows " one to be able to discuss ideas in the first place.

such as air and water.
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06-26-2007, 10:46 AM
Smile Re: What is truth,can we know it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
perhaps it would be a good idea to start with the fundamental truth of what " allows " one to be able to discuss ideas in the first place.

such as air and water.

Well said north,we would have great difficulty in existing without these two absolutely
essential elements being present,have you any ideas as to precede from that firm and
essential bedrock?



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06-26-2007, 08:13 PM
Re: What is truth,can we know it?

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perhaps it would be a good idea to start with the fundamental truth of what " allows " one to be able to discuss ideas in the first place.

such as air and water.
How are you defining what is 'air' and what it is 'water'. Sea level air or air on top of Everest, the air over LA or the air over Pago Pago? Salt water, fresh water, tap water, 100% pure H20? Are the all the same?
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06-26-2007, 08:25 PM
Smile Re: What is truth,can we know it?

What we can know of truth is that we are the very embodiment of it,we are the visible
sign of an invisible fact.

When we can fully realize just what we really are,and not what we think we are,then we
will be truth itself,unpersonified!



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