What is truth,can we know it?

[MJA]

What is the truth?

Truth is!

=
MJA

[DeadWrong]

When Einstein came out with the theory of relativity, it changed science as we knew it. It was such a profound transformation in thinking that scientists in other disciplines worked on the theory that there must be relativity in all things. This has had disastrous consequences on the scientific community, and even society as a whole, the level of unclear thinking it has evolved is simply stunning. We now have relative morality, relative truth, everything is now relative.

There was a period of time in the development of mathematics where new theory ground to a halt. Once they came up with the concept of Zero, all sorts of math were possible. Then the relativists came in and stated that 2+2=5 when you're dealing with very large values of two, and 100 didn't equal 100, it actually was 99.9999999999999 because if you take 100 and divide it by 3, then multiply by 3, you get 99.9999999... People started getting so caught up on the over thinking of simple concepts that progression halted. It wasn't until... I forget the mathematicians name, but he stated essentially "That is fine if you want to consider 2+2=5, but for me and my math, it equals four, and I will assume in all my calculations that it is equal to 4." and the serious debate eventually ended.

Sure people still debate the subject, heck, some still even believe it. Just like there is still the flat earth society.

[DeadWrong]

Hi Michael,

You are using "truth" in two, entirely different contexts. In fact, there are two unrelated concepts here, which happen to have the same name. There is general dichotomy of true/false and then there is the absolute Truth, which completely transcends the duality of true/false.
...
...
We should have different terms to name these different concepts. That would go a long way to alleviate the confusion.

I LOVE your post, which reminds me of the other word we use to mean different things. I love my wife/kids, and I Love ice cream...

[Profpat]

What is the truth?

Truth is!

=
MJA

You are right MJA, but that includes mankind.

It might not be the truth you would like to see;
but the mankind you see today is the true mankind here and now. And therfor, the mankind we have to deal with, even if you don't like it.

Its like Plato's perfect circle, its a concept an idea, in reality there is no perfect circle, only approximations,
uncertain imperfect, but that's the WAY it IS and thats the truth.

Best to all,

Pat

[mkirkpatrick]

If you accept the principle as I do,that we are the very embodiment of truth,then it follows
I think,that as we grow in self knowledge and understanding,then too does our grasp on truth enlarge.

As we grow to realize and understand the falsehood of exclusiveness,and begin to
embrace the dawning reality of inclusiveness,then the blinding curtain of selfishness
will be lifted,and we will see "with new eyes",which of course will lead to more revelation
of truth and reality.

So the answer to the question I posed in this thread starter is "YES" we can know truth
as much as we are able to"know" ourselves.




regards michael.

[Profpat]

Thank you for the answer Michael;

I don't think exclusiveness is a falsehood in that it is.
Ignorance is, it might not be desirable, but truely it is.

I do agree that we should attempt to know ourselves.

" Know thyself " Socrates

"This above all:
To thine own self be true,
for it follows as dost the night the day,
that canst not then be false to any man."
Shakespeare

Best to all,

Pat

[mkirkpatrick]

Thank you for the answer Michael;

I don't think exclusiveness is a falsehood in that it is.
Ignorance is, it might not be desirable, but truely it is.

I do agree that we should attempt to know ourselves.

" Know thyself " Socrates

"This above all:
To thine own self be true,
for it follows as dost the night the day,
that canst not then be false to any man."
Shakespeare

Best to all,

Pat

Cheers Pat,yes very true ,you are right of course exclusiveness is not a falsehood as such
rather the result of our ignorance.
regards michael.

[Drifter]

What is truth,will we ever fully understand it.I think that to try and explain
truth,to talk about it,you are at once,caught in a lie.for truth is ever present
and forever now,therefore to explain truth,you are in effect,talking in past
tense,therefore a lie.
It occurs to me that,one has to become the embodiment of truth,to be truth
itself,then you will understand it.
It is said of old,that you can add to wisdom,but never to truth,for that
remains forever in the eternal now.

how then can I become truth?

regards,michael.

http://www.socratus.com/eng/truththeory.htm

[Bob Campbell]

Truth is word that defies definition in language but there are things that can be said about it. Some things we agree upon as being true in the public domain. Plants in season have green foliage. Fresh fallen snow is white. Water becomes ice at low temperatures. Most birds fly. Dogs bark. Fire burns. We all know these things to be objectively true. We can subjectively verify them with sensory input from the objective environment. True statements are distinct from false statements that are obviously inconsistent with our sensory experience. Also negative statements about the nature of truth cannot be true. If one says that there is no such a thing as universal truth the statement cannot be universally true. If one says that all truth is relative this also cannot be universally true. Statements of this kind are self contradictory.

There may be certain distinctions in the nature of truth. Universal truth is timeless and holistic. It transcends our birth and our death. It transcends our personal being yet we must seek out a holistic framework of understanding. Our intuitive right brain requires that we do so regardless of how flawed or fragmented our accepted framework of understanding is.

If someone believes that biological death brings a final end to life and that they meet total psychic annihilation, they must believe that this is true for all humans who have ever lived. In fact they must believe that this is true for all intelligent social beings alive anywhere in the universe. When they make the statement they do not believe they alone are singled out for psychic annihilation as a matter of course in the scheme of things. It is a holistic belief. Our sciences seek out universal laws that prescribe patterns of change that do not change and that transcend our birth and our death. We all need a holistic framework of understanding to meaningfully integrate our experience.

We have a strong tendency to emotionally identify with left brain language that lacks structural intuitive insight into the nature of the creative process. We should properly seek a sustainable balance between our intuitive right brain our language bound left brain and our ancient emotional brain. The following links are especially relevant:

http://www.cosmic-mindreach.com/Three-Brains.html
http://www.cosmic-mindreach.com/Truth_Bias.html
http://www.cosmic-mindreach.com/Unified_Theories.html

[mkirkpatrick]

If we can see ourselves as we really are,living intelligent energy,then by accepting this truth we can indeed get to know what we are and in doing so we will discover that we are all interconnected and interlocked into a vast cosmic dance,we are all motion and moved by the upsweep of evolutionary pulsation.


regards michael.