Mind as Separate Entity
Published by Mohsen
05-13-2005
| | Introduction This is a chapter of a paper which is proposed as a model for theory of everything. For examining the principles, readers are either referred to look at the Singularity as Seperate Entitiy in this library, or to browse the whole paper at: www.universaltheory.org. Mind
This theory observes astrophysics, quantum mechanics and mind principles to offer an alternative model for TOE. This is a work in progress. Your input is very needed to indentify the flaws and improving the principles. The term mind has such a battered history that it can hardly be used clearly in technical writing yet it is almost unavoidable. Mind - As a Separate Entity By using the word Mind I intend to relate the cognition of organism about itself and its environment. Consciousness on the other hand is a more sophisticated process, which higher organisms with more complex nervous systems are exhibiting in their interaction with environment. But for the sake of simplicity I will use the two words interchangeably. In this paper I adopt the Plato's interpretation for mind, which assumes mind as separate entity from body. Rene Descartes and his followers further developed this view later. Aristotle and later Immanuel Kant and Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels on the other hand, rejected the duality. During the past centuries Aristotle belief that mind is a product of brain function, has been more popular among scientific community. Mainly, because Aristotle's version was more practical and yield itself to experimental investigations. But it seems that new findings and new theories are looking to other possibilities. Santiago Theory of Cognition sees the consciousness as a process and body as the structure. Let's try to see if Plato's version can help us to understand some of the paradoxes, which are facing us. Francisco Di Biase and Mário Sérgio F. Rocha from International Holistic University, Brasília believe “Consciousness' conception as something essential, primary and irreducible is also found in the consciousness maps, obtained from thousands of psychotherapeutics reports and consistent and converging experiences, observed by several researchers of the medical and psychological areas (Jung, 1959; Grof, 1985; Moody Jr., 1976; Ring, 1980; Sabom, 1982; Kubler-Ross, 1983; Weiss, 1996). These researches works with persons submitted to altered states of consciousness, through various methods, like hypnosis, relaxation, meditation, holotropic breathing, near-to-death experiences, etc. Surprisingly, maps reveals “an ontology and a cosmology in which consciousness cannot originate from, or be explained in terms of any other thing. It is a primordial factor of existence and from it emerges everything that exists” (Grof, in Capra, 1988). “ (20) As an analogy for mind to be a separate entity, please note that motion is not the product of legs, rather motion exists as a separate entity and any being who owns moving organs, can adopt it. For the proposed singularity, we are trying to imagine a being with no mass and no spatial dimension, which is also not time bounded and at the same time, is main source of information and is a an enormous source of energy. The concept is very unfamiliar and confusing. Or is it? We have an entity inside each of us, which possess the above characteristics. We call it consciousness or mind. Sir John Eccles, the noble prizewinner for his work on synaptic mechanism, believes a world exists separate from the matter that contains all subjective and mental experiences.Let us explore this further. Space While we are sitting in our chair reading these lines, perhaps our mind is elsewhere, in the kitchen and probably thinking about the coffee maker. Perhaps our mind is with our loved one, which is at work or at school, at a distance. If you are fascinated with astronomy, your mind can be two billion light years away at this time. Where is our mind? Can you show me a location for it? Can you give me a size for it? Is there an actual distance that our mind has to travel to reach to a remote area? May I suggest that mind is present and at the same time does not possess any spatial locality? As far as I know there is no specific location in central nervous system, which is mapped as being center of consciousness. Later on we can see how holonomic brain theory suggests that information in the brain is stored as frequency rather than localized bio-physiological changes in neurons. Mind does not possess locality Ein Ajabtar ke mano tou be yeki konj inja Ham, dar in dam be Araghimo Khorasan mano tou It is most surprising that we are at this corner At the same time we are in Iraq (west) and Khorasan (east ) Rumi One can argue that when we are thinking about remote places, our mind is not actually in those places. But uses bits and pieces of memories and information to create virtual locations. Nevertheless, the fact that our mind can be present in different locations in its own domain set the example for a non-local entity. Chris Clarke says “ Mind is inherently non-local. On the other hand, the world is governed by a quantum physics that is inherently non-local. This is no accident, but a precise correspondence. Mind and quantum operator algebras are the enjoyed and contemplated aspects of the same thing.” 9 summary Time How about time? Our mind can travel to yesterday, predict events for next week, go back to ancient times, and even travel to the time of the big bang. Our mind does not have to wait for the passage of time to finish its journey to remote distances or to time travel. It seems our mind exist in any time or no time. I mean mind is not time bonded. May I suggest that the rules of time, as we know it in our space-time universe, are not applicable to our mind? For example, unlike real time, which has only one direction, along the history of observer, our mind can time travel back and forth. Later on we will see how imaginary time direction in quantum theory mimics the time in our mind because it can travel in both directions. Matter Matter does not exist in our awareness but its image does. Let's make an imaginary world using the above tools. Just like what we do when we daydream or dream in sleep.Suppose you heard on TV that this week's Lottery grand prize is twenty million dollars. You are sitting in your armchair, having your coffee and thinking what you would do if you win the grand prize. Of course at first you would think of paying off your mortgage or car loan and other debts. But then you would start thinking about more exotic things that you could do with that money, like buying a coup Mercedes, or a mansion with a 50 feet long pool, a tennis court, at least 6 bed rooms... It also should have a very large master bedroom with on-suite bathroom containing whirl-pool, sauna, steam room and any other facility that you may think of. Suppose you are not married yet, you would dream about marrying your ideal spouse and you picture yourself having a very happy life with children in the mansion. Yet, all of the sudden the alarm clock rings. You have to stop dreaming. Where is that world that you created? Can you pick up a yardstick and actually measure the size of that pool or the land or master bedroom. Show me those children that you where playing with in the backyard. Which was or is or will be the date of your wedding. Where is the location of your dream? Doesn't your dream mimic the singularity in the sense that it can contain a big world whereas itself does not have any dimension or it is not bond to time? Which one is primary, the dream or the actual mansion? Isn't it true that dream is the origin of our creativity? May be you will stop and buy a lottery ticket in your way to work? While images of matter are all over our minds, as I mentioned before, no tangible matter could be found in the whole process. |  Contents | | |
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 Featured Articles | | | | | | | | | | The Following User Says Thank You to Mohsen For This Useful Post: | | | | Is it really? The mind 'works' because the brain controls it. Without the brain, the mind would not work. If the mind were a seperate entity, then it should be able to stand alone and function independantly but, alas, it cannot.
The body 'works' because the mind controls it. With no consciousness the body would cease to exist and would deteriorate.
The two ideas of physical and psychological have to go hand in hand as they are mutually benificial. | | | | | if my brain turned to mush,would the mind know! Quote: |
Originally Posted by SimpleKid18 The mind 'works' because the brain controls it. Without the brain, the mind would not work. If the mind were a seperate entity, then it should be able to stand alone and function independantly but, alas, it cannot.
The body 'works' because the mind controls it. With no consciousness the body would cease to exist and would deteriorate.
The two ideas of physical and psychological have to go hand in hand as they are mutually benificial. | how do you know that the mind cannot work
separately!have you any evidence of this,and are you saying that if you think that there is intelligence in the universe,and that if there is a grand design.that
the designer could not fuction,Without a Brain,I dont think so!do you?
kind regards michael. | | | | | | Yes, thats exactly what im saying. If you take the brain (or nucleus) out of a human or any living creature, then it will surely die as it has nothing to control it. The brain regulates everything in the body that is needed to function properly. How can a 'designer' even think about anything if it doesnt have the correct figuration of anatomical parts? There are areas in the brain that are key for mathematics, language and other things that one would associate with a 'mind'. I dont think that there is a grand designer because if there was: a) they would have to have an extremely large or very developed brain to design the thousands of things we see around us, which as of yet has yet to be proven and b) if there was this 'grand mind' floating around in space, then where did it come from. If you think about the Bible, it said God designed man in his own image, therefore, God must have been a human being. So how did this 'God' come to exist? Is he so clever that he designed himself or has something/one else designed this omniscient character that we are all so in awe of? | | | | | from the many came the one! Quote: |
Originally Posted by SimpleKid18 Yes, thats exactly what im saying. If you take the brain (or nucleus) out of a human or any living creature, then it will surely die as it has nothing to control it. The brain regulates everything in the body that is needed to function properly. How can a 'designer' even think about anything if it doesnt have the correct figuration of anatomical parts? There are areas in the brain that are key for mathematics, language and other things that one would associate with a 'mind'. I dont think that there is a grand designer because if there was: a) they would have to have an extremely large or very developed brain to design the thousands of things we see around us, which as of yet has yet to be proven and b) if there was this 'grand mind' floating around in space, then where did it come from. If you think about the Bible, it said God designed man in his own image, therefore, God must have been a human being. So how did this 'God' come to exist? Is he so clever that he designed himself or has something/one else designed this omniscient character that we are all so in awe of? | Look again my friend there are not thousands of different things,there is Only One thing,ask a wise man if you can find one,and ask him how many forms of life there is in the universe,I can assure you that he will Say,that there is Only one form of life in this here universe,and that One Form of life is expressed in an Infinite number of ways,you are being confused by Form,look beyond that and yoiu will see the living enery,which for want of a better name is Mind!!!
kind regards michael | | | | | | What is the one form of life? It is as simple as this; the mind cannot work without a brain. It comes into existence through being born and it leaves when the being dies. No 'greater connectedness' at all. | | | | | Does the vine need a brain to find a support! Quote: |
Originally Posted by SimpleKid18 What is the one form of life? It is as simple as this; the mind cannot work without a brain. It comes into existence through being born and it leaves when the being dies. No 'greater connectedness' at all. | This One form of life is what you and I and all else is emmersed in,You can call
this One life whatever you wish,it matters not,but most agree on some like
universal intelligence,whether you like it or not,we are all interconncted with
one another,and that is a fact,Not a opinion,check it out,ask all the great minds
around this planet,if we are interconnected or not,they will All say we are,the only things that there will be dis-agree-ment on is what you call it!We are
connected to nature,to the plants,trees(whats left of them)animals,and we
are connected to the polution that is spewed out into the atmosphere.Brains
come and go,but consciousness and mind are eternal,where is the brain of the
vine that will follow a support,when it has no eyes,and yet it Sees the support.
it has no ears, and yet it shows more intelligence without a brain,than many of
Us with one!
regards michael. | | | | | I think that you should be more careful in your sweeping generalisations 'We are connected to nature'. Just because plants show signs of intelligence, it may actually not be intelligent just a number of hormones working together. They are not some kind of Triffid!!! The auxin produced in the knows where the sunlight is and it bends towards it. How can you say that such a simple substance is an intelligent being? Can you think back to when you were born? No, no one can remember their birth. This is because the brain is not yet sophisticated enough to understand and remember concepts such as their own birth, let alone the ponderings of the Universe. Have a look at this website about auxin: http://library.thinkquest.org/15215/Friend/garden.html
can you tell me that phototropism is intelligence or just a simple catalysic biomechanism? | | | | | A broom does the sweeping! Quote: |
Originally Posted by SimpleKid18 I think that you should be more careful in your sweeping generalisations 'We are connected to nature'. Just because plants show signs of intelligence, it may actually not be intelligent just a number of hormones working together. They are not some kind of Triffid!!! The auxin produced in the knows where the sunlight is and it bends towards it. How can you say that such a simple substance is an intelligent being? Can you think back to when you were born? No, no one can remember their birth. This is because the brain is not yet sophisticated enough to understand and remember concepts such as their own birth, let alone the ponderings of the Universe. Have a look at this website about auxin: http://library.thinkquest.org/15215/Friend/garden.html
can you tell me that phototropism is intelligence or just a simple catalysic biomechanism? | Yes it is simply intelligent,and more so in some repects than us,at least it does not justify itself like You or I.And there are many who can remember being born,some can recall the womb,a little research will reveal this fact.kind regardsmichael. | | | | | | Yes, but they cannot remember hat it was like a month before they were concieved because the brain is needed to think | | | |
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