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Re: Logic and Mathematics
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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-26-2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie View Post
Thermodynamic math can prove truth___it has a direction___the arrow of time___toward the absolute truth...
Ahhh... the future. Well, that wraps it up. We can all go home.


"Just looking for an absolute and trying to understand the relatives,
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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-26-2006, 06:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
Ahhh... the future. Well, that wraps it up. We can all go home.
Eric, where's this absolute logic you keep talking about___I haven't seen it yet... What set of rules does it have? Is it scientific logic? Is it logic...?

regards,


"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
  
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Re: Logic and Mathematics
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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-26-2006, 07:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Guille View Post
Probably you know that the basis of mathematics is logic. But, how exactly does mathematics relate to logic? Is it logic's language, or just a type of use of it?
Mathematics is one expression of logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
Eric, where's this absolute logic you keep talking about___I haven't seen it yet... What set of rules does it have? Is it scientific logic? Is it logic...?
Absolute logic's first rule, is that it can not accept an assumption of any kind. It has to disprove all assumptions. It can not accept an approximation, to even the most infinitesimal small (oxymoron) degree of uncertainty or infinitely large (oxymoron) degree of certainty.

Absolute logic has to begin with the greatest assumption possible and disprove it. By doing this, it doesn't have to disprove any other assumptions. It just has to not make any assumptions, and the assumptions that logic has already made, will be disproved as a matter of course.

So what is the greatest assumption possible?

It's right in front of your nose. Take a guess.


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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-27-2006, 09:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
Mathematics is one expression of logic.



Absolute logic's first rule, is that it can not accept an assumption of any kind. It has to disprove all assumptions. It can not accept an approximation, to even the most infinitesimal small (oxymoron) degree of uncertainty or infinitely large (oxymoron) degree of certainty.

Absolute logic has to begin with the greatest assumption possible and disprove it. By doing this, it doesn't have to disprove any other assumptions. It just has to not make any assumptions, and the assumptions that logic has already made, will be disproved as a matter of course.

So what is the greatest assumption possible?

It's right in front of your nose. Take a guess.
My guess is you, Eric. Now, where's your logic...? ...other than piling up more words...


"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
  
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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-27-2006, 09:37 PM

Folks,

Welcome to Lloyd's lack of character and imagination. There is another side to him, but you never know which one you'll get.

Eric

P.S: Care to guess again? The answer is common knowledge in the scientific community. The fundamental question about this greatest of all assumptions, is also common knowledge.


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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-27-2006, 09:50 PM

Absolute logic's first rule is "A is A", Eric... Go back to school...


"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
  
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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-28-2006, 12:03 PM

That wasn't the question.


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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-28-2006, 11:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
That wasn't the question.
There was no rational question, Eric...


"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
  
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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-29-2006, 12:08 PM

Q: "What is the greatest possible assumption?"
A: SOMETHING and NOTHING

Q: "What is the greatest possible question?"
A: Why is there something rather than nothing?

Q: Is this Eric's subjective, mythical conjecture?
A: No. This is the historical root of all scientific inquiry.

Q: Is "A=A" (per Lloyd), absolute logic?
A: No. Absolute logic determines A and A has no equal, including itself.


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Re: Logic and Mathematics - 12-30-2006, 12:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Eric View Post
Q: "What is the greatest possible assumption?"
A: SOMETHING and NOTHING [Per Eric...? I'd say that the greatest assumption is that, all the people of the world should be fed, clothed and housed.]

Q: "What is the greatest possible question?"[Why aren't all the world's citizens fed, clothed and housed?]
A: Why is there something rather than nothing? [Haven't thousands of years of science and debate settled this moot point...? It's settled to me, Eric___the absolute state or objective fact of true nothing is impossible, even though the statement looks stupid, and can be easily mis-interpreted. I published this fact in 1982.]

Q: Is this Eric's subjective, mythical conjecture? [Eric's moot point, also... "Nothing can be created from nothing" is true since stated by the Greeks. The only trouble is it has two possible meanings, I chose "Absolute nothing is not possible", forget the double negative___it's a stupid English axiom of false thought, in this required statement.]
A: No. This is the historical root of all scientific inquiry. [That's quite a piece of wisdom, I don't think anyone is capable of possessing. Were you there...?]

Q: Is "A=A" (per Lloyd), absolute logic? [Absolute logic of what, Eric...? A is A, is simply science's first foundation rule of using, otherwise, fallible logic...]
A: No. Absolute logic determines A and A has no equal, including itself.[Yeah, in pure opinionated bs logic... Absolute logic determines no-thing___logic is just one of the fallible essence agents of the fallible human mind/soul/ego___it is quite empty until we, as humans, infer something into it.]


The Fallible Human Mind/Ego/Soul of Logic

Again Eric, you offer no deffinition of this, otherwise, mythical logic. You know, it seems everyone wants to assume their own perfection and completeness of understanding of ideas, when in fact all ideas and minds are truly incomplete___being itself___is incomplete___yet most speak from an ego as if it possessed complete omega knowledge and wisdom___I think this point quite important. Let's just say that possibly, the mind at omega point may be able to achieve such complete intelligence, how, and I stress how, would one develop the dialogue and language necessary to reach the world's diversity of minds? Is it even possible? I think the key would be in accepting, with humility, the absolute incompleteness of one's own being's knowledge, and the deffinitions of what is considered knowledge and or wisdom, to different groups. Now, we know from this site, that metaphysics and science are on opposing sides, quite often, not even counting the vast differences of spiritists, emotionalists and consciousnessists. Is there a solution to these mind/ego/soul differences...?

Now, I know there is a solution to these differences, but I don't know a way of getting the truths across to varrying global points of views. All I can do is state my views, from the science side of philosophy and physics. Let me just point out that when anyone uses logic, it has different rules of use for all the opposing world points of view. It was Husserl who first recognized the different rules between scientific and psychological logics___he showed where they had opposite sets of rules. Others have shown also that music and comedy opperate on totally opposite logic functions than science, and of course, we well know the differences between spiritists and scientists, etc... Now, what exactly are these differences...? The scientist will say logic must function according to the established rules and laws of the historical use of philosophic and physical logic, as established by Aristotle on, i.e., A is A, A is B, and B is not not B, and the excluded middle, etc.. Since Aristotle, we have further increased the branches of logic to some 138 categories and 9 classes, functioning on varrying agreements and dis-agreements with the founding rules. On the other side of the fence are the psycholigists, metaphysicists, spiritists, emotionalists and consciousnessists, etc. who insist on a further undefined set of private language logics, as first described by Wittgenstien___and he also stated, it doesn't exist. Now, we really have quite a mix of mush to make sense of___where do we start...?

Let me again just state science's position. In order for logic to function toward facts and factually provable truths, only real objects can be inferred into the otherwise fallible human logic, due to the fact that if opinion is allowed to be inferred into logic, all that is possible for logic to return is opinion. This does not mean the scientist can not use theory to find fact. It only means that the final logic must only have real objects inferred into logic to return absolute facts, and nor is it possible for any subjective realities to be inferred into logic, with an outcome of absolute facts___subjective inferrences will always return nothing but unprovable opinions.

The human mind/ego/soul is too fallible, as most will use their ego, polluted by the infinity problem of soul capacity, to pollute the mind's final positions___this is just as often true of science, as of religion, etc. So, herein lies the problem, as I see it___The human mind/ego/soul itself___being___is too fallible to be trusted, without verifiable objective facts of observation, to back up logic, to create any absolute facts of any realities.

Now, for a moment, just look at the other side. Let's take the most violating of science and logic___religion. They most all believe in an infallible soul, yet the soul can be exaggerated to any powers of delusions, especially the more emotional it becomes. These exaggerations, when added to the mind, only enhance the mythical power of the ego, and do not add to any true logic. These are absolutely subjective states of opinions, when inferred into logic, and can only produce more opinions. This isn't to say that opinions can not become facts, as they often do, but not until purified by the realities of the absolutely objective world. This isn't to say emotions aren't real and can't be studied, as they are scientifically cognitively studied all the time, but it's through a massive historical database of objective observational case studies, which I may add, are usually ignored by the opinionists, lacking these and other scientific logical objective facts.

True logic only works factually true with absolute objective objects inferred in, first___always___period... Any other type of logic, is polluted by, quite often, false opinion... This has been the trouble and reason that metaphysics has been truly unable to enhance the study of being beyond its feeble state of incompleteness___being is absolutely scientifically incomplete... We must get off our big egos and recognize this fact...

Regards,
Lloyd


"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel
"Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein
"The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G.
"The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
  
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