[melanie]

Originally Posted by mkirkpatrick

Thanks Melanie,"I" was there,the rest is not? "I" moves on as "we" disolve!



regards michael.

Yes thank-you michael .. the 'I being' is eternally in movement .. it is the little i person ''the we'' that is absent ''we'' are just an appearence like that of a thought or an emotion


regards melanie.

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by Profpat

Can you name me one honest politician EVER?

Best to you,

Pat

That's why I'm not a registered voter (I have never voted). Even though I am not religious I won't bear false witness and contribute to hurting other people.

[N0B0DY]

"When you can use the methodology of science to measure or observe god, then you can say he/she/it exists. I would think if god existed he/she/it would make itself known to all and not just in the psychotic visions of individual members of the human race."

It is an anthropomorphic tendency, Dave. All of the gods and creation accounts are based on equating natural phenomena with godly powers and positions. So there is no need to prove god's existence because dependent upon the interpretation of circumstantial evidence god is what you are existing in and god is what exists inside you. Only that, you and I both call it the universe.

Melanie,

When you're right, you're right, and imo you're right! Christianity has been responsible for more killing in history than any other religion, and it had nothing to do with the religion, but with manifest destiny imo.

[folla rule]

Originally Posted by dleviwing

Unwritten;
Both science and religion are ologies (fruit)(branches of learning). Science is based on measured or observed facts whereas religion is solely based on belief by the human psyche. Scientist do not say there is no god; they simply say there is NO PROOF of a god. Atheist say there is no god and that is another belief system; one I tend to adopt.

hello... yes i'm new to this forum.... yes i'm probably naive..... but dipping my toe in the water so to speak i thought your quote was interesting.. so i'd like to ask ~~>

when you say science is based upon measured or observed facts... do you refer to the casual effects that are observed and measured?

It is my understanding that most of science is reaction based and therefore in a simplistic way it could be argued that it is exactly the same as religious belief.... you see, whilst 'God' might remain as elusive as some scientifically accepted phenomenon the effects of that God is as measurable, via believers, as any scientific outcome...

This is notwithstanding the question of human psychology which offers into the mix the matter of vain brain distortion and individual perception alterations.

I'm not religious but then again i'm not particularly scientific... i'm just a keen watcher

[mkirkpatrick]

Welcome folla rule to the toequest community,like what you are saying,look forward to
more posts from you.




warm regards michael.

[Fluent Piffle]

Originally Posted by Profpat
Can you name me one honest politician EVER?

Best to you,

Pat

Hmm.. 'Honest politician'...It's tempting to spout off about 'politics', Pat, but actually I have recently changed my opinions on the whole thing. I think we are ALL 'political' by nature! The majority who enter 'politics' in the professional sense, probably start off thinking they can do some 'good', but are more than likely rapidly swallowed up into a world they have little control over, in Reality. Once you're on the roller-coaster, it's not easy to jump off!

If it were not for dishonest people, we would probably not need 'politics' at all. In this regard, it actually 'pays' to keep people dishonest, so that a form of 'leadership' is then needed. ..It ain't rocket science! - Which reminds me, even Einstein wrote publicly about his 'political beliefs'.

But if it's true Honesty you seek, I'd say that is probably a toss between Hitler and Gandhi. (But G probably just has the edge!)


pif.

[Profpat]

Hi PIF:

I agree that all politics are local, right down to the family unit.

Hitler not very honest in his rise to power, and Ghandi I view above politics, more of a spiritualist, philosopher, very influencial on the political scene however, like Dr King.( I believe it was Nehru who was the 1st PM of India )

But this was more of a set up PIF, in that I recently posted on one of Sally's post, that Diogenes need to keep looking for that honest man.

Not here, kind of like the weapons of mass destruction, where are they.

Probably the dictators and tyrants are more honest than the politician who needs votes. ( I am not including Gandhi in that group ) He and uncle Albert are two of my favorite people in the 20th century.

We could use a few in the 21st century.

Best to you,

Pat

[Fluent Piffle]

He and uncle Albert are two of my favorite people in the 20th century.

We could use a few in the 21st century.

Well, that makes it unanimous then!

However, Pat, whatever your opinion, Gandhi was influential in very political way. A 'politician', being someone who commits an act of a political nature. In this regard, Gandhi was also a professional. Not all politicians allow themselves to be set up as 'prime (targets) ...erm...ministers'.

Quite rightly, you do not include Gandhi in a group of such a kind. It's all about motivation.

Not here, kind of like the weapons of mass destruction, where are they.

Between the ears, I fears!


pif.

[Profpat]

Well PIF;

If you want to include Gandhi as a politician, he probably was the most honest. And if you don't include him as a politician, then, he probably was the most honest. Though being human, I think Diogenes is still looking.

Was Jesus a politician?

Best,

Pat

[Fluent Piffle]

If you want to include Gandhi as a politician

It's not a question of what I want, Pat. It is simply a fact. He was a member of the Indian nationalist movement, and spent around seven years in total, in jail, as a direct result of political activity. Is it not a sad thing, when Honest men are put in jail?

http://www.indianchild.com/mahatma_gandhi.htm

Was Jesus a politician?

If he existed, then yes. If not, then a politician invented him! - Is it not a sad thing that Honest men are crucified, simply for trying to help others?


pif.