[Drifter]

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

Drift, not that evil OOO Guy again imposing a will via 'Hell to pay'. Will He torture, burn, dismember, and otherwise torment those forever whose free will doesn't match His own? This role model becomes you.

Why evil? This is why:

There is a psychological process of imagination

that goes from feeling ‘special’

to considering it ‘possible’

to it’s likely

to The Divine is so

to it has these certain qualities

to it has this actual purpose

to it has a will that I must follow

to there will be Hell to pay if I don’t

to I must preach it, even threateing,

to getting upset about other contrary beliefs

To getting irrational in its defense,

To getting angry and calling names,

to going to war over this
and other differences of cultures,

to even having clerics run the government and

to enforcing what one must do,

that is, the root of all evil,

at any of the above steps

after 'Hell to pay'.

I, too, must bid adieu and wish well to all.

We are our own savior and our own destrroyer.

The only consequence of 'you' making an irrational decision is, you must live by it after 'you' make it, And That's the only 'Hell' of which I speak.. Makes for a pretty good "Root" from my perspective.

There is no free will, only a misapproprieted will, the one you subjugate (like "A Theif in The Night, as 'your own'.

Reread the "Parable of The Hidden Treasure" post.(instead of simply "skimming it over").

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable...idden_Treasure

Namaste`
D.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

Dialog is no game up; don't invite dialog by posting if you wish for no dialog on yours ideas posted.

Many of your answers, much like Drifter's are a way to divert to elsewhere instead of any answer that might actually relate to the questions.

So, perhaps you don't really know what Abrams meant about no right and wrong, your previous diversion given to excuse the 'anger' suggestions in the previous post.

"Anyone who has ever had the slightest brush with philosophy will know, even without an intimate acquaintance with its concerns in the Middle Ages, that in the eleventh century St. Anselm of Canterbury (or Anselm of Arosta, in Piedmint, for that is where he was born) constructed an extrodinarily interesting line of argument known as the Ontilogical argument for the existence of God. The name was thought up by Kant seven centuries later, and since then that is how Anselms argument has generally been known. It is a troubling argument, as we can see when we consider how many of the most resplendent stars in the European cultural firmament went to enormous pains trying either to refute it or to show, by amending it in various ways, that it was sound. Among them were philosophers of the most varied orientations: Descartes, Leibniz, Kant and Hegel, Schopenhauer, Bertrand Russell and G. E. Moore; and one of the twentieth centuries most most distinguished mathematicians, Kurt Godel analysized the logical structure of Anselms argument.The argument itself, though a thick layer of commentary has grown up around it, is not difficult to understand. Briefly summarised, it goes as follows. Let us imagine a being such that no greater being can be conceived. Anyone who hears this discription, Anselm says, will understand it; one needn't be paricularly clever to to grasp it. Now it is not hard to demonstarte that a being so conceived - and we can all conceive of it - cannot just be conceived, but must actually exist. For if it is conceived, and thus exists in our minds, we can imagine that it really exists; but a being that really exists is greater than one that is merely conceived by us and exists only in our minds. In other words, a being than which nothing greater can be conceived would, if it did not really exist, would be a being which something greater could be conceived (namely something really existing) it would therfore be self-contadictory, an impossibility. In order to avoid self-contradiction, are we compelled to admit that such a being must exist: that it exist necessarily. God is just such a being - or rather, He is that being. Everything else we can think of can without contradiction be thought of as not existing, but not God, His existence is unfathomable. The fool who, as the Psalmist notes, 'hath said in his heart There is no God', could not really have understood what it was he had said in his heart; if he had been able to understand it, he would have seen that it was self contradictory. So no experience is necessary to attain intellectual certainty of God's existence; we know it a priori from the very idea of God."

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Mikal

Drift....you just amaze me how you can talk the spiritual in one breath and then accuse people of judgment in the other...if the spiritual is anything it is most definitely the greater understanding.

I have a conscience Drift so I need no advice from you. I don't need the philosophy of spiritual guru's, I had my experiential moment of knowing God within my own heart and yes I felt my soul....it changes your life forever.

I will not be back to discuss with you or Mel and it might serve you better Drift to own your own mind instead of Abdul L Baha's and think for yourself rather than let Baha's philosophy think for you....

Don't offend those....God gave as precious gifts in your life by expressing that divinely there should be no sorrow when they leave in death....life is so important that we could almost say that God or the universe gave first priority to the "FAMILY" as that is the first place you and all arrive...





Mikal

You interjected your presumptous advice into my post, not the other way around.
Happiness is the absence of suffering.
You pine after name and form, yet claim to know spirit? What is the source of your sorrow, if other than 'self-inflicted? The Hell you experience is of your own making, i.e. "Attachments".

Your loved one is not the person in the box, you are. If you know the spirit within you as your own true essence, how is it that you cannot grant your loved one the same respect? They're likely laughing at your foolishness.

sniff sniff . . . what is that smell? "Bullshit!" . . .why, . . . thank you.

Namaste`
D.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Mikal

Wow Mel...you sure have no idea what your talking about here....I commented on Drifter's post because I found his spiritual claims offensive...it would be a little difficult to recognize those beliefs in myself and then be offended because Drifter spoke them....If I had those beliefs in myself I would not be critiquing his post would I????

The spiritual is not a collection of ideas or fixed steadfast beliefs.....the spiritual is an "EXPERIENCE" within yourself...the spiritual is experiential in nature. It is varied and diverse just like as people we are diverse.....Due to the experiential nature of the spiritual it becomes an inner state one lives from, not a bunch of beliefs or ideas as is claimes....

In relation to the spiritual Drifter's stated claims are irrational and make no sense....
I hope this does not further offend you but then how could it if there is no you to be offended???????



Mikal

And "logic" can't seem to get past its own rules.

"The experience" is a transpersonal one, everybody knows that.

Matter is the vehicle, on this plane of existence for the manifestation of the soul,
And the soul, on a higher plane of existence is the vehicle for the manifestation of the spirit.
These three are a Trinity sythesized by Life,
which pervades them all. ~H.P.B.

Namaste`
D.

[dipayankar]

Death is never a taboo subject. Infact it is the culmination of one's existance.

Originally Posted by Mikal

Hi Dip....it always amazes me when some people claim to have no interest in the ongoing debate on a human issue, yet keep returning to view how the subject and debate is going. There are some of us who like to think outside the box....who like to discuss NDEs and OBEs as mysterious human experiences....sorry if we are offending your rigidly formed opinion but is not the thread topic..."what happens after you die????"
Is this not a thread inviting the discussion of that taboo subject "death"..?????


Mikal

[Knot_Me]

Re: What happens after you die?

Trying to remember the question I was supposed to be answering in the first place.

I think it is obvious what happens to the physical - we become worm food. Actually the worms come from with in but that would not be the topic presented.

I do not know about a higher plane of existence but I believe the energy of our consciousness changes form - I believe we have parts of our being that are "us" I believe we have a soul and a spirit.

Ever had an argument with your self - ever wonder who you were arguing with????


In my personal opinion death is when those two aspects of your being join - The representing of a man and woman two separate aspects of the same species joining to make one child- the resulting child is made up of genetic coding from each parent but he/she is an individual in and of their own right - I see the same process happening upon our departing this existence just as it did to begin it - Any way just thought I would add my opinion you guys looked like you could use an extra one of those in this thread

[Yanborg]

Originally Posted by Knot_Me

Trying to remember the question I was supposed to be answering in the first place.

I think it is obvious what happens to the physical - we become worm food. Actually the worms come from with in but that would not be the topic presented.

I do not know about a higher plane of existence but I believe the energy of our consciousness changes form - I believe we have parts of our being that are "us" I believe we have a soul and a spirit.

Ever had an argument with your self - ever wonder who you were arguing with????


In my personal opinion death is when those two aspects of your being join - The representing of a man and woman two separate aspects of the same species joining to make one child- the resulting child is made up of genetic coding from each parent but he/she is an individual in and of their own right - I see the same process happening upon our departing this existence just as it did to begin it - Any way just thought I would add my opinion you guys looked like you could use an extra one of those in this thread

Ok I fold, I agree damn it!! We have a soul ! That soul is also physical and also becomes worm food. Unless your a scientologist, in which case your soul takes flight from Earth and the evil galatic lord Xenu chases it around the milky way.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Mikal

Wow Mel...you sure have no idea what your talking about here....I commented on Drifter's post because I found his spiritual claims offensive...
it would be a little difficult to recognize those beliefs in myself and then be offended because Drifter spoke them....If I had those beliefs in myself I would not be critiquing his post would I????

The spiritual is not a collection of ideas or fixed steadfast beliefs.....the spiritual is an "EXPERIENCE" within yourself...the spiritual is experiential in nature.
It is varied and diverse just like as people we are diverse.....
Due to the experiential nature of the spiritual it becomes an inner state one lives from, not a bunch of beliefs or ideas as is claimes....

In relation to the spiritual Drifter's stated claims are irrational and make no sense....
I hope this does not further offend you but then how could it if there is no you to be offended???????



Mikal

Thankyou for your comments, you say '' Wow Mel...you sure have no idea what your talking about here.''
You are quite right of course, as i make it all up as i go along. As we all do, through our own experiencing.

I also read the Drifter transcript you are referring to, but i could not find anything offensive in it at all.
Would you be prepared to explain to me, what and why, you found it offensive. ??

You also mentioned something about not wanting to further dialog with drifter and I .......Is this a principle of ''your'' spiritual beliefs ?

I also agree that, as you say........
''
The spiritual is not a collection of ideas or fixed steadfast beliefs.....the spiritual is an "EXPERIENCE" within yourself
...the spiritual is experiential in nature. ''

Although i personally, have not experienced this through the experience of OBE's or NDE's
These experiences.. i have not had the pleasure of yet.

No ..... i haven't needed these obe experiences, because i have known the spiritual you speak of, all my life,
as early as i could re-member in fact, probably as early as when i first became aware of my surround, around the age of 3/4

I always followed natures ''will'' and not my own, for natures ''will'' was already IN_STILL into me.

Sometimes i'm a bit of a ''wayward soul'' though, .....just ask austie

Namaste.
melanie.

[melanie]

Drifter.

Happiness is the absence of suffering.

'' Success is not the key to happiness, happiness is the key to success.
If you Love what your doing, you will be successful.''

Albert Schweitzer






From Self to Self....ONE.... Perfectly Divine Paradox

Loving Ya All_ways.
namaste
melanie.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

Dialog is no game up; don't invite dialog by posting if you wish for no dialog on yours ideas posted.

Many of your answers, much like Drifter's are a way to divert to elsewhere instead of any answer that might actually relate to the questions.

So, perhaps you don't really know what Abrams meant about no right and wrong, your previous diversion given to excuse the 'anger' suggestions in the previous post.

I don't know what ''Abrams'' meant about right and wrong.
But i do know what ''Adams'' meant about right and wrong.
So you wrongly assume Austin.

We should never use Love to control another person into thinking how we think.
Its about using the higher energy to allow that person to tap into their own higher thinking.

When you are able to find it within yourself to send love to someone who for instance, you are very angry with,
you will be surprised at the peacefulness that can embrace you.
For in taking this way of action you are actually allowing yourself to let go of your anger and thus help you to stay healthy.

Over time you will find that your worst enemies will teach you the most powerful message of all...Love.

Happiness, is aligning ourselves to the source, flowing in natural vibration with natures harmony,
by doing this even dis-ease is eliminated ...such IS the power of energy conversion.

Namaste
m.