[Drifter]

Originally Posted by leskey

This - this place, this medium, this thread, whatever - is NOT life.

It is however a means of observing the individuals who contribute...it is probably fair to assume that what is exemplified here IS indicative of what is exemplified in real life.

No one knows what is going on in another person's life, that's why it's important not to lash out at one another...doing so can only create a whiplash effect ("karma" for the "enlightened") that returns to sting the whip-holder...

The attempted point to be made was this:

http://www.answers.com/Five+stages+o...wp=12&method=2

It doesn't follow to be labelled some sort of "spiritual guru", which I consider pious and 'personally' find offensive, for sharing what to me is just plain common sense. Why suffer three additional and unnecessary imho, 'stages/steps' if it is really about "what we take away?" Isn't That enlightenment?

"Perfection is not when there is more to add, but when there is no more to take away." Antoine De Saint-Exupery
"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone." Henry David Thoreau
"Creation is a better means of self-expression than possession; it is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed." Vida D Scudder"

The fact Miikal stated was "she found something offensive in my post", and responded to it, to which I merely demonstrated she could be equally as offensive, if that's all we're looking for is "more offensive stuff to add to our lives. One cannot be self-righteous without someone else to be condescending upon. Sorry to ruflfled such pretty feathers. Maybe she should have taken another perspective before diving in on top of someone? My two sense.

Namaste`
D.

[melanie]

Originally Posted by Mikal

Wow Mel...you sure have no idea what your talking about here....I commented on Drifter's post because I found his spiritual claims offensive...it would be a little difficult to recognize those beliefs in myself and then be offended because Drifter spoke them....If I had those beliefs in myself I would not be critiquing his post would I????

The spiritual is not a collection of ideas or fixed steadfast beliefs.....the spiritual is an "EXPERIENCE" within yourself...the spiritual is experiential in nature. It is varied and diverse just like as people we are diverse.....Due to the experiential nature of the spiritual it becomes an inner state one lives from, not a bunch of beliefs or ideas as is claimes....

In relation to the spiritual Drifter's stated claims are irrational and make no sense....
I hope this does not further offend you but then how could it if there is no you to be offended???????



Mikal

Dear Leskey, Sorry to bring this to your attention, but i think there is some imbalance going on here regarding communications.
The quote above by Mikal ....you personally thanked her for.
And yet as you can see in the post below....
It is yet another rather uncomfortable post written by Mikal ...
which spurred drifter into a defense mode ...
meanwhile you then decided to judge drifters reply to this post below.
It seems you condone Mikals posts even when she has been equally as offensive to drifter and even me for that matter....
But then you condemn drifters replies as being of a '' lashing out '' nature.

Originally Posted by Mikal
Drift....you just amaze me how you can talk the spiritual in one breath and then accuse people of judgment in the other...if the spiritual is anything it is most definitely the greater understanding.

I have a conscience Drift so I need no advice from you. I don't need the philosophy of spiritual guru's, I had my experiential moment of knowing God within my own heart and yes I felt my soul....it changes your life forever.

I will not be back to discuss with you or Mel and it might serve you better Drift to own your own mind instead of Abdul L Baha's and think for yourself rather than let Baha's philosophy think for you....

Don't offend those....God gave as precious gifts in your life by expressing that divinely there should be no sorrow when they leave in death....life is so important that we could almost say that God or the universe gave first priority to the "FAMILY" as that is the first place you and all arrive...

Mikal

Originally Posted by leskey .. Talking to drifter.
This - this place, this medium, this thread, whatever - is NOT life.

It is however a means of observing the individuals who contribute...it is probably fair to assume that what is exemplified here IS indicative of what is exemplified in real life.

No one knows what is going on in another person's life, that's why it's important not to lash out at one another...doing so can only create a whiplash effect ("karma" for the "enlightened") that returns to sting the whip-holder...

This was your reply to drifter, and yet looking at all the posts from each interaction, are we not all guilty of the same non-exemplifications here?

And yet it is drifter you pick out to be put under the microscope.
In his further defense which he is perfectly entitled to do he then writes his response below.
A response in which i personally agree with him in his response one hundred percent.
It seems to me that there are some very one sided debates going on here.
And it saddens me to see the same people getting picked off here.
For what we are all guilty of. Are we not ??

Drifter:
The attempted point to be made was this:

http://www.answers.com/Five+stages+o...wp=12&method=2

It doesn't follow to be labelled some sort of "spiritual guru", which I consider pious and 'personally' find offensive, for sharing what to me is just plain common sense. Why suffer three additional and unnecessary imho, 'stages/steps' if it is really about "what we take away?" Isn't That enlightenment?

"Perfection is not when there is more to add, but when there is no more to take away." Antoine De Saint-Exupery
"A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone." Henry David Thoreau
"Creation is a better means of self-expression than possession; it is through creating, not possessing, that life is revealed." Vida D Scudder"

The fact Miikal stated was "she found something offensive in my post", and responded to it, to which I merely demonstrated she could be equally as offensive, if that's all we're looking for is "more offensive stuff to add to our lives. One cannot be self-righteous without someone else to be condescending upon. Sorry to ruflfled such pretty feathers. Maybe she should have taken another perspective before diving in on top of someone? My two sense.

Namaste`
D.

I agree with drifter.

I also think that because we are all uniquely different, it is silly to even imagine we are all going to agree,
and to be able to understand what is going on in each others heads and minds.
What i personally think is .. if we don't understand something then all we have to do is ask the author to explain their point.
If someone for arguments sake does not understand what i am writing about for example,
I will be more than happy to discuss it in detail,
step by step what it is i am writing about. That's if any one is interested.
If they are not interested in my posts then they can read it but they don't have to leave any comments.

It is not helpful to criticize or judge others ...
when all they are doing is expressing their beingness and their personal way of seeing their reality.
We all live in our own realities.
Yet having said this.....All of these seemingly separate realities ''Arise'' out of ONE ULTIMATE REALITY... which is ''Pure Awareness''

[melanie]

Originally Posted by leskey

This - this place, this medium, this thread, whatever - is NOT life.

I disagree ..... I think '' Forums '' are Life.
Life includes everything especially internet interaction.

I have personally learned more about life and myself from interacting through this medium,
than i have ever done through any experiencing '' Out There'' in the big wide world so to speak.

This is the World Wide Web where people are connecting.
Where the Global Consciousness meets as ONE.

What and how we learn from each other, through our different backgrounds,conditionings, cultures, and beliefs.
Will ultimately have a ripple effect on our societies and communities creating a better understanding and a more co-operative peoples.
Every other person we meet ''out there'' will benefit in the long run.

If we can understand and love people we have never seen, known or met, we can ultimately Love anybody and everybody.




namaste
melanie.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by leskey

This - this place, this medium, this thread, whatever - is NOT life.

It is however a means of observing the individuals who contribute...it is probably fair to assume that what is exemplified here IS indicative of what is exemplified in real life.

No one knows what is going on in another person's life, that's why it's important not to lash out at one another...doing so can only create a whiplash effect ("karma" for the "enlightened") that returns to sting the whip-holder...

It is Omnipotent, omnipresent omniscience. If that isn't "life", I don't know what is!?

[David Maes]

Originally Posted by analog

Teachings of Gods and such have two possible consequences, in my opinion. For some it gives them someone to admire and love, and accredit all of the good in the world, whereby any perceived bad (based on the experiences of the individual) is excused or accused upon other things, but the opposite effect occurs when you present an omnipotent/all-powerful being to the minds of those who's life experiences have been less than enjoyable, due to how their experiences/learning have taught them to interpret the world; it gives them someone to blame.

My early life was full of a lot of blaming, due to my experiences, but now I just see life for what, I feel, it is. It doesn't owe us anything, and expects nothing, in my honest opinion, and the physics which currently reveal the mechanics of our micro and macro worlds will soon be extended to also reveal the realm at which we are all more familiar with; some would call this a ToE.

You know, I don't really care about god.
But if he would exist, I wouldn't like him. Because if he would exist, he would be a supernatural spirit that guides us. And because there is a lot of suffering in the world, I don't like his way of guiding.

In case he would not be a supernatural spirit that guides us, but something else, then I care even less about him.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by David Maes

You know, I don't really care about god.
But if he would exist, I wouldn't like him. Because if he would exist, he would be a supernatural spirit that guides us. And because there is a lot of suffering in the world, I don't like his way of guiding.

In case he would not be a supernatural spirit that guides us, but something else, then I care even less about him.

He is in the world David, as your "Conscience", how often do you listen to That?

Everyone has learned since kindergarden the difference between what is right and wrong 'socially' these 'things' we have been taught by our Parents and by society at large, at work, at play, on a date, you name it. You cannot say you do not know the difference bewteen right and wrong, can you? Isn't it the same, or nearly so, for every other human being on the face of this planet David? Sure our culyures and our conditioning make us 'different' somewhat, but eac of us has a consciece that tags along wherever we go. It knows, even if 'we' decide to go against the still small voice in our heads, anddo things 'our way', what is right and what is wrong and what is approprate and what not, regardless of what we actually end up doing. That's what is meant in scriptures by "May His Will Be Done and not "my own". Get it?

His way or the highway, thinking about it or doubting it(e.g. following ones carnal or material urges and desires) in many instances, is a prelude for disaster. "Let go and let God. You don't an emphatic "YES or OK!" Just stop saying no, and learn to listen and follow your "Conscience" as your 'guide' for a change. It's really pretty easy. I call it my "Ever Trustworthy Parental Spirit", if the word God is such an aversion for you, or "Dad"'Father', "Friend", or No thing at all, what It really is. But you cannot say It/He does not exist! That would self-contradictory, an impossibility.

Namaste`
D

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by leskey

This - this place, this medium, this thread, whatever - is NOT life.

It is however a means of observing the individuals who contribute...it is probably fair to assume that what is exemplified here IS indicative of what is exemplified in real life.

No one knows what is going on in another person's life, that's why it's important not to lash out at one another...doing so can only create a whiplash effect ("karma" for the "enlightened") that returns to sting the whip-holder...

http://rohithv.livejournal.com/9629.html

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Let us imagine a being such that no greater being can be conceived. Anyone who hears this discription, Anselm says, will understand it; one needn't be paricularly clever to to grasp it.

Now it is not hard to demonstarte that a being so conceived - and we can all conceive of it - cannot just be conceived, but must actually exist. For if it is conceived, and thus exists in our minds, we can imagine that it really exists; but a being that really exists is greater than one that is merely conceived by us and exists only in our minds.

In other words, a being than which nothing greater can be conceived would, if it did not really exist, would be a being which something greater could be conceived (namely something really existing) it would therfore be self-contadictory, an impossibility. In order to avoid self-contradiction, are we compelled to admit that such a being must exist: that it exist necessarily. God is just such a being - or rather, He is that being.

Hi Drift ... haven't looked at your latest links yet. Just replying to your earlier posts.

Your logic is faulty. Reread it and hopefully you will see why. Its subjective to your first rule .... and therefore

Originally Posted by Drifter

can't seem to get past its own rules.

no offence .... cool bananas ... greg

[G_burnett]

Originally Posted by Melanie

I disagree ..... I think '' Forums '' are Life.
Life includes everything especially internet interaction.

I have personally learned more about life and myself from interacting through this medium,
than i have ever done through any experiencing '' Out There'' in the big wide world so to speak.

This is the World Wide Web where people are connecting.
Where the Global Consciousness meets as ONE.

What and how we learn from each other, through our different backgrounds,conditionings, cultures, and beliefs.
Will ultimately have a ripple effect on our societies and communities creating a better understanding and a more co-operative peoples.
Every other person we meet ''out there'' will benefit in the long run.

If we can understand and love people we have never seen, known or met, we can ultimately Love anybody and everybody.




namaste
melanie.

What is love Melanie but one side of a coin called awareness, the side that has the words likable awareness on it ... when the likable awareness is greater then the despicable awareness or with no despicable awareness one can call that love ... foolish term applied though.

Do you then preach we should all ignore what we do not like? Stand in the face of death and say I love you? ... go ahead an kill me? it is a real world Mel ... In Viet Nam Bahia's were not dismissed at first from duty for the beliefs they had yet and when the Baha'i greeting was given before the fire fight many times the shooting was stopped ... enemies wary yet joined to talk, many times this happened so they were given conscientious objector status.

some times ... it did not stop.

Today this group in some areas found out are given the option to convert or be hung. Even children as young as six and seven and not one known has denied there faith ... the children are hung with there parents.

As long as there realists Mel you are in a world of your own denial choosing to turn a blind eye upon the need of change and the better way to do it and add to carnage and body bags that come home.

The road to hell is paved with those of good intent some one once told me.

But thank you for the ponder down memory lane ~G

[Mikal]

To all in this thread....well have been busy for several days but reviewed thread and can see that to post here one's perspective must be weighed and measured....possibly would afew people like to put me in front of a firing squad, somekind of execution or maybe hanging. Goodness I was merely pointing out that in my opinion "indifference" is definitely nothing to do with a spiritual viewpoint of life....
It seems any disagreeing perspective can ruffle feathers and incite levels of anger considered rather small minded for a forum like the TOE....
Are we all adults??? Do we see there needs to be change in a world that does exist and we are all living in ????


Mikal