[David Maes]

(Please wait a bit before answering)

Now, considering the relevance with consciousness, i'm going to say something about drugs.

Primarily i have to say i never used it and secondly considering the addictive consequences of it, you do understand i'm not really planning to experiment with it.

So i don't have experience on it, so i have to get my information of experiences on the internet and trust it's reliability.

As i read drugs would have a much heavier effect, more like hallucinogenic. i've read about people having experienced that the ground suddenly was about ten metres deeper or some experiences even said he was pursued by some kind of huge insect...

i also read that there were experiences of altered time perception dependend of the kind of the drug one takes. The person perceives "time runs faster" or "time runs slower". i think this has something to do with dopamine.

Of course this does not prove that the flowing of time would go faster or slower, it only proves the subjectivity of the perception of time.

Now about subjectivity of time perception, (without taking drugs) i think i might have experienced a bit something like it.

When i was about 14 years old, taking a bath (like hot water cause it relaxes me); i stood up and suddenly my vision disappeared and i saw little white dots on a black background. Then suddenly very far away i was hearing this "waggle waggle". i couldn't describe what it was. Then suddenly i realized i had fainted and fallen in the bathwater. The "waggle waggle" i kind of felt in the distance was the water which was moving. So the high temperature of the water had influenced my blood pressure. It had made me becoming dizzy and i had fainted. It was as if i hadn't existed for a few seconds... then probably my consciousness still in some kind of a more unconscious state started to receive information again which lead to the "waggle waggle" experience. Then i became conscious again and i realized what had happened. i think the few seconds i was unconscious, i didn't even know i existed; it's like i just wasn't there anymore... but as i experienced it, it was as if i had made a jump forward in time. If it had been two hours, i think i just might have missed them...

Of course i don't consider this like a NDE... (just fainted for a few seconds, but find it interesting what i perceived).

But as i see it, i think consciousness might be more a given.

Of course i've never experienced jumping back in time, only jumping forward; but personally i'm sure about subjectivity of time perception (which doesn't prove us anything about the objective passage of time, but rather tells us something about the way we perceive time). i even think time perception doesn't really need fainting to be subjective.

Of course when you are looking to a clock you won't perceive it going faster or slower.

First of all i would like to use the R&R i have to inform anyone who might think about experimenting with drugs.

I think drugs can already be addictive when you take your first shot. The effect of it decreases in time, so to have the same effect you have to take more and more; making increasing the possibility of OD.

I also have to say if one night of going out already has the possibility of ruining a hobby and also the image people have about you; then imagen what drugs could do to you.

Also drugs is very addictive physically. Of course it can ruin everything you have or any dream you might have. You don't see the reflection in the mirror, but your environnement does. This might cause you to lose everything, your job, your wife, etc... Eventually it could be you don't have enough money left to pay the drugs. Eventually you might have to steal money to pay the drugs. I would say 'if you look in the abyss, then the abyss also looks in you' (Nietsche). Also if you suddenly stop taking it, you can get symptoms of abstinence; these alone can kill you. Cause your body needs the drugs, it's dependend of it.

If you would take drugs, then it's extremely important you never combine it with alcohol (cause it's a sedative); this means it's really dangerous and lethal. Also never combine alcohol with medication like a high amount of sleeping pills for example. This is lethal also.

If one already would be on drugs, that i would say it's really important searching for help.

If one can't afford it, other people should help them.

[michellemfry]

Oh David, you had an encounter with a disturbing moment. Do not let your whole self be defined by aberrant moments of the psyche. If you inquire closely enough, you will find that others have found themselves on emotional cliffs, at a loss to define how they got there, but lucid enough to recover and carry on.
The only thing you will get out of me is a cup of coffee and a smile. Yep, there it is...now, you might have to search a little for the coffee...

[psycho_preteen0711]

I think that your topic is very interesting, but my answer was that you are reincarnated...I don't really know why I put that answer...I just wanted you to know that I thought that your thread was very interesting and that it takes a lot of thought...

[David Maes]

Sorry about the many posts i'm doing now.

Now everything i send now might have the impression to sound very negative, or even depressive. You might not really believe it, but personally i still believe everything is positive. i think i might just perceive it in another way (which doesn't mean it's the right way of course).

But when we just state 'everything is positive' or 'we all live forever', this i cannot help, i just can't approve it this way. i can be wrong of course, i don't know; but if you just state this, i'm sure it can give us a nice day, but my opinion is it would be much stronger if it would be funded much more deeper. This is about 'what happens if we die'. We might not really find the answer; but we can talk about it and think about it.

Maybe my bad reactions and emotionality are responsible for this.

Anyhow i'm truely sorry if i would have overreacted, people are allowed to react on what i think if they have another opinion. i am not the omniscient.

Also this website can take stars away from me, if i'm saying something wrong (i do hope you do it if i'm wrong); else i won't learn anything.

Because if you're afraid to state something because you might lose a star, then you might not rapidly lose one, but you'll certainly not rapidly gain one also. You just keep on standing on the same position, moving in circles, without evolution.

Sometimes i think it might be better to lose a star, and then maybe gain two of them later on. i'm sure my flag will understand it.

i will state ideas, my purpose is to know more about the TOE.

What people really want when they visit this website is information on the TOE. i think private emotions might not really belong here.

i don't want to be responsable to spoil this. So people i would say don't be afraid and say your opinion, also when they are conflicting mine. If i can't handle it, i would better leave. i don't want to bring this internetbeauty of wisdom into danger.

[David Maes]

Originally Posted by David Maes i think i stated almost right from my unconsciousness, because the information was not much processed by my consciousness.

i have to be honest here (if possible, want to contribute a bit to TOE); how could i have sended something if i wasn't conscious of it?

What i sended that moment was right from the I at that moment, not from the Es.

The only thing i was not aware of was the upper-I.

(All i can say is 'sorry', but i know it's no excuse).

i also think you can't have thoughts without emotions and you can't have emotions without thoughts. i think they are interchangeable (a bit like mass and energy).



As you see, i read some stuff about Sigmund Freud; when i'm reading it, i think very much of what he said is true.

[David Maes]

i also think you can't have thoughts without emotions and you can't have emotions without thoughts. i think they are interchangeable (a bit like mass and energy).

What i think to be more unconscious is emotional addiction. The neuropeptides which are produced by the hypothalamus, and which are received by the receptors of the several cells, and which cause certain emotions and thoughts, which we can be addicted to.

[David Maes]

i think when someone experiences certain emotions and thoughts he's not always conscious of the hidden emotions and thoughts which he's addicted to.

[David Maes]

Originally Posted by David Maes Ok, i know i am not worth to talk on this site furtherly; however the matters which are talked about here attract me overwhelmingly. So i would like to take this opportunity to apologize publicly for the contents of what i send. i'm grateful this site just didn't throw me out. i really hope you can forgive me and don't take seriously the contents of what i've send that night. The DNA of a chimpanzee is for 99% the same as the human DNA. So when i re-read what i've send that night it makes me more thinking about the chimp-part. The moment i was sending it i didn't realize what could be the possible consequences of it, i didn't feel it or just didn't think about it. i also had too much selfconfidence. i also have to say that just before i went out, i didn't even plan to send anything. i did plan it, but then i already was more in a tipsy state; considering the fact that we are talking about consciousness i thought i'll send it for the sake of TOE; maybe it could contribute something to what we are discussing. i didn't expect i would say things like this. Anyway, i don't consider the contents of what i stated important, and i hope you also don't; i only find interesting what this could mean about consciousness. Anyway the moment i was stating it, i didn't feel anything about the possible consequences. However, the morning-after, when my amount of consciousness started to increase again, i did feel very badly (emotionally) about the contents of what i stated. To be honest with you i almost felt very bad for a whole week. So it seems that these kind of 'pleasures' also have a price. Maybe you might not belief what i'm stating now or you might think i'm just faking it. One of my personal philosophies is that honesty is the best policy. Because i'm a very bad liar. ( i think sometimes to be able to lie you need higher IQ and EQ and...). So i can confirm i'm not lieing. For me i don't consider that lieing would contribute much to a TOE. So maybe this could contribute something to what we are talking about. (i also can confirm that that night was the only one during which i was sending things to here in such a state) The only thing i can send you is how i experienced it. i can tell you that the moment when i was stating, i still felt i, but i was in a different state (less conscious). The day-after (when i was in my normal state again), i still felt i; i also remembered a bit what i stated but i still didn't feel emotionally bad; but the moment when i started re-reading what i stated, then i felt bad. It was like looking in some kind of a mirror for the first time. However i don't consider my unconsciousness as something which dictates or commands me what i have to do. If it would command me, i think it would already have brought me in a lot of trouble. On the other hand i consider unconsciousness more as a signal (like with animals); but i think in the end it's the consciousness which decides what you're going to do. Of course the consciousness has its roots in the unconsciousness.

OK, this all true.

i think there are 3 parts here: the unconsciousness (hidden thoughts and emotions and instincts); the I-consciousness (thoughts and emotions which you are conscious of); the upper-I (the outside world).

The unconscious instincts are being brought in agreement with the demands of the outside world by the I-consciousness (what you think and feel).

What you think and feel is consisted of what you think and feel about yourself, what you think and feel about your environnement and what you think and feel about what your environnement thinks and feels about you.

When someone had too much alcohol, then (just like in a clear state) he won't be conscious of his hidden, unconscious emotions, instincts,...

However he will be conscious of what he thinks and feels about himself, what he thinks and feels about the outside world and what he thinks and feels about what the outside world thinks and feels about him.

But this information is memorized when he's still in a clear state.

Of course, when using alcohol, his reactions are working slower, also the alcohol is a bit anaesthetizing his emotions and thoughts, also he has too much selfconfidence (like everything he thinks and feels is 100% right). He has less control of body motions.

He will be aware of new incoming data and information (but these are less processed); and at that moment he won't be able to anticipate what will be the consequences when he does something or says something. After saying or doing it, he won't be able to anticipate what the environnement will think or feel about him; also he won't be able to anticipate what he will feel and think about himself, about his environnement, and about what his environnement will think and feel about him.

[Omni]

Other: I don't know.

[harmonygirl]

David, your analysis (as far as this layperson can tell) sounds very Freudian (Id, Ego, Superego). Is this the genesis of your analysis?