Hi Lam....if you ever experience an NDE you will change your thoughts about "no mind and a pure vacuum." You will wonder for the rest of your life about the possibility of consciousness after physical death. You will wonder about there being more to life than you knew before the experience and you would especially learn that to hurt others is essentially to harm yourself which seems to be a lesson with strong concensus for all experiencers.....
Studies on expert meditators, using electrodes, show that the brain areas for self boundary and the self ID are quieted, thus one feels that they are transcending to elsewhere, but the opposite is true, for they are still here, just not knowing where they end and the universe begins, and so feeling as one.
Feeling, I like that word. It implies sensory perception. Have you finaly reached the spookiness effect from point zero? The connect we have to the ALL? ... the nano conection we try to make sence of to put the all to a theory by some sort of understanding of the empathy needed ... no, demanded by the connection to make use of it as the somuchmore then just a medium of transfer to un quote Einstein ... The closer you are in the cone to one effect that IS effect on you, the easier to understand, to make sense of and take the mystery out of it all. IMHO
Well, we can't get close to anything that is not really there, for all feelings and sensings are from the brain, and in the case of no-mind, it's just a neurological quieting that is [mis]taken for being with the origin of the universe.
I mean, it's great there, with nothing happening, being lost in space, time, and having no boundaries, but it's really just an unperceptive state.
"Matter is the vehicle on this plane of existence for the manifestation of the soul, The Soul on a higher plane of existence is the vehicle for the manifestation of the spirit, These three are a trinity, synthesized by Life, which pervades them all."
Quote:
Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com
Consciousness (the sea in which 'I' see) is the same for everyone. The events witnessed by it are different for each person.
"Scientific reality" continues to morph itself in light of what is currently "known:" all theories being opinions of what "could" be, based upon certain parameters...
Thanks for the link, Melanie. The following is selectively quoted from the link:
"...let us look at his argument for making human consciousness special...
"...he can still be absolutely certain of one thing: the projection must happen within consciousness...the only time he can be absolutely sure that a potentiality has become an actuality is when it appears in his consciousness...The only conscious subject that you can be certain of is yourself. Your consciousness is responsible for the projection from potential to actual...
"The conscious subject can not "belong" to any object, and that includes our thoughts and bodies as well as other humans...All we can say for sure is that there is a consciousness and the entire world, including our own inner thoughts and feelings, appears in it....
"The idea of separate conscious individuals is thus an illusion resulting from not recognizing this circularity...In fact, there is just one conscious subject, and You Are That.
"(However) there is a loss of any notion of a shared, objective world...that we actually experience the same world "out there"—becomes questionable...the whole quest of science to discover the laws of an objective world "out there" seems to be nothing more than an abstraction.
"While it may seem that objectivity is totally lost in the quantum realm, it has only taken a new form...Einstein's theory showed two important things. First, all measurements of time and space are relative—they depend on the point of view, or reference frame, of the observer. Second, the laws of nature do not depend on the point of view—all worlds are governed by the same laws. Thus, while the way nature appears to each mind-body depends on its point of view, the laws of nature do not. Objectivity no longer applies to the separate worlds of appearances. It only applies to the common laws behind them.
"Niels Bohr...says, "[we must use the word] phenomena exclusively to refer to the observations obtained under specified circumstances." In other words, the phenomenal world that appears to each of us is not objective, or absolute, but relative. To talk of the "actual" state of an object without reference to an observer in quantum mechanics is meaningless, just as is talking about the "actual" length of a time interval without reference to an observer in relativity. The "actual" world you experience is just a particular projection of the real world of potentiality...
"In addition, just as there is no preferred reference frame in relativity, there is no point of view that is more special than any other...(all) are fundamentally just as valid. While all points of view are created equal...no one person's point of view is ultimately any more true or false than another's.
But quantum mechanics differs from relativity in one important way...There is an objective world, but it is not an actual world fixed in space and time. The true objective reality is a potential world of possibility...In Schrödinger's words, "this whole is not so constituted that it can be surveyed in one single glance." But behind this apparent proliferation of subjects and objects, all are united and intricately interconnected."
Drift, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Austin, if you are referring to the higher consciousness (sea) of which we are all a part, I also agree.
Some may have observed since childhood, a repeated pattern in everything; a "circularity," if you like. The trinity is a key component of that pattern. To once again quote the underlying basis of the posts of Everymans Medium, the all pervading pattern is: "unit, unity, community" from the bottom up and from the top down.
All is united and intricately interconnected - on every level.
__________________ "What a fragile balance between the indispensable and the sublime." Hans Blumenberg
"Perfection is not when there is more to add, but when there is no more to take away." Antoine De Saint-Eupery
Disclaimer: *The above statements are my opinion only and shouldn't be taken as factual. Read at your own risk*
Consciousness is always a subject and can never be an object, for it can but witness (observe) the events of experiences that surface on the mind (one or two at a time) from the brain's processing of senses or of some inner analysis.
Consciousness is a brain state. It is the same for everyone, not because there is a 'sea' of it out there everywhere, but because it is a ground state to the figures of experiences. Consciousness is not an object, so there is no 'it' to be out there, but is rather actually an end state, the last to be informed, in fact, of our experiences/thoughts/emotions from our subconscious brain analysis are completed a half-second earlier, give or take a bit. This is why we are robot-like, kind of like tourists along for the ride.
Some non-hyper non-reactive people may take time to brew up more creative solutions to a problem, using "free won't"… but that's another story.
Many would love to use wordplay magic to make consciousness be some objective initial state out there, but it is only in the brain and can be affected or altered by the brain or put to sleep from the brain or anathesia; in other words, there is no consciousness without a brain, but please don't try this at home.
Sorry to say that consciousness doesn't float around and we cannot presently share what's in our consciousness directly with anyone, as we cannot mind-meld; thus it is definitely separate and that's why we feel isolated and need friends, groups, and whomever to share things with.
Hi Lam....if you ever experience an NDE you will change your thoughts about "no mind and a pure vacuum." You will wonder for the rest of your life about the possibility of consciousness after physical death. You will wonder about there being more to life than you knew before the experience and you would especially learn that to hurt others is essentially to harm yourself which seems to be a lesson with strong concensus for all experiencers.....
Mikal
The 'No Mind' i referred was, actions aren't instinctive and there will be a pause - a blank space, when a thought arises and the body acts. The thoughts can be seen clearly and there will be an opportunity to choose the action. This is an outcome of meditation. Thoughts can never be stopped - But there can be a state when the thoughts are just as clouds passing by. It can be watched but wont affect the activity.
I really don't know whether there were any NDE experience in my life. I might be wrong with the idea of vacuum, but i had understood such a way with reference to time. Coz time exists only Now.
Can there be some inputs about the NDE?
__________________ I can see death. Its very Far, yet very Near.
Coz, I don't see anything in between from where I stand NOW, and where the death is. Its pure vacuum.
Or, Is it the Death is Here? Now?
Hi Lam...I had an NDE in the 1980s when I lost one of the main electrolytes which the heart functions from. I was not alone when that happened and my daughter heard my last breathe...she knew I was gone. I felt myself experiencing that last breathe and just like switching a light off...I was gone. I was very conscious of everything that was happening...moving through greyness, knowing I was in a body we could call supersensible, knowing there was a presence with me and feeling that presence steer me through a tunnel of swirling light and dark yet stopping me abruptly and telling me with his eyes and emotions...I could not stay it was not my time! I was allowed to look into a place, view those who had passed...then brought back to my physical body which was uncomfortable because it felt like being poured back into myself....my arms and legs felt like they weighed tons. While gone, I never remembered earth, my life or even my daughter sitting beside me. I just was very conscious of all happening to me there in that other place and other body.
I would point out to sceptics that NDEs cannot be a pattern in the brain or everyone's experience would be totally similar with no differences. There are both similarities and differences in the NDE experience. I would point out this experience is not imagination...imagination is a mental function played out in the mind...the NDE happens to you, to your subtle body, to who you perceive yourself to be....
I understand that for those outside the experience it is hard to understand and maybe even to grasp as it may well be something that has to be experienced for total understanding. One of its after affects is shared among experiencers and that is the loss of the fear of death so life takes on a new quality, its more meaningful and especially important to struggle not to intentionally hurt others.....
Sorry to say that consciousness doesn't float around and we cannot presently share what's in our consciousness directly with anyone,
as we cannot mind-meld; thus it is definitely separate and that's why we feel isolated and need friends, groups, and whomever to share things with.
Consciousness/Awareness is all there is.
And all matter swims around in it, just as a fish swims around in water.
Does a fish know it's in water? similarly are we conscious of the oneness of our reality, do we realize we are nothing but awareness,
it's very subtle, both matter and awareness arise simultaneously.
The reason we feel isolated and needy, is because we instinctively know we don't exist as a separate self, and there is just one being here.
There is nothing separate about reality at all.
It can't be proved, because there is no one here to prove it.
It is it's own proof, it is intuited by the consciousness itself.
Self awareness.
Linear Mode
