Re: What happens after you die? -
06-22-2007, 02:21 PM
Higher consciousness is for when you are alive.
As for consciousness continuing after death, my last ditch effort to save to soul would be to "make up" that if consciousness is a fundamental part of the universe and then it could live on in an unperceptive immortality (since no brain, no memories, etc. to produce anything to observe).
Re: What happens after you die? -
06-22-2007, 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r.p.bibra
In case it does not hurt your atheism, "Truth thru Proof" is the spiritual way of realising the Truth. By the way, what is truth, in the definition of the atheists? love®ards.ls
ps,never mind the dictionary, ls has the chiocest ones! he is a student of litt. he does not have to go to wikipedia!
Nice one Rajinder .... unfortunately, for us lesser Litt types the Wiki is very handy.
Truth as defined by Science:
A scientific theory must be testable. It must be possible in principle to prove it wrong.
Experiments are the sole judge of scientific truth.
Scientific method: observations, hypothesis/theory, experiment (test), revision of theory.
A "good" or useful scientific theory will make testable predictions of what should happen under new circumstances that are independent of the original problem or observation for which the theory was developed.
So you see, Rajinder, a Scientist (Atheist) has to not only overcome all the 'Theists' opposition, but then has to overcome the biggest enemy of all. He has to become a 'Devil's Advocate' to his own ideas.
cool bananas ... greg
'Blondie says I must hate all Brunettes. I'll try, but if I can't ... I'll love them both' ... graffiti on Tavern wall, Pompeii, circa AD 70.
Re: What happens after you die? -
06-23-2007, 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard
Nice one Rajinder .... unfortunately, for us lesser Litt types the Wiki is very handy.
Truth as defined by Science:
A scientific theory must be testable. It must be possible in principle to prove it wrong.
Experiments are the sole judge of scientific truth.
Scientific method: observations, hypothesis/theory, experiment (test), revision of theory.
A "good" or useful scientific theory will make testable predictions of what should happen under new circumstances that are independent of the original problem or observation for which the theory was developed.
So you see, Rajinder, a Scientist (Atheist) has to not only overcome all the 'Theists' opposition, but then has to overcome the biggest enemy of all. He has to become a 'Devil's Advocate' to his own ideas.
cool bananas ... greg
Sorry, we have involved ourselves into a subject which defies human-intelligence. How scientists are atheist, is something beyond comprehension, as some our Noble prize winners were theist? What is so bad about it? We start with some of ls’s past observations, which could not hurt anybody’s sensitivities in any way.
“What is body composed of? Atoms! There is no place in the universe where atoms are not present, and in every atom there is energy in latent or patent form. Energy/atom is 'conscious' or do you think inorganic matter transformed into organic (life) just by itself
What is it that which hold (contract) the regressed matter after the big-crunch; the elementary-particle? Would you define it as “One” or the compositor of all matter? It is a physical world, entirely controlled by physical laws. There is nothing but the element of intelligence in the whole creation Why bother about a hypothetical equation! pysical body perishes, so it perishes,what is so dramatical about it?”
Above were some of the observations raised by the ls but none were directly tackled, excepting NOBODY, who had much earlier in one of the post had hypnotized that "consciousness" is the awareness of internal order created by these cells, an emergence of something in addition to your body's cells. This consciousness so far has not been proven to exist outside the body but nevertheless we are we contemplating an extension after death or before birth only because our selfish consciousness cannot deal with eternal nothingness.(p181) His proposition is unacceptable, as according to his experience of “breathless-state” of the body; the next consequential result is either OBE (out of body experience) or ‘soul-realization”. The latter is the most likely sought after ‘experience’, for the advanced seekers prefer not to be tempted by this (OBE) localized attraction. However we shall discuss this aspect of the consciousness later, as our immediate subject is ‘origin’ of life, which has cropped up suddenly, overlapping the source-question. Now coming back to our topic: there is the ‘Creation’ of the material world and its creations, and the life-factor is our main concern presently. How to unravel the secrets of their origin? Naturally there in only one way and that is to trace back its ‘history’ by going back via the signatures left during the course of their evolvement, i.e., since their origin to present. Let us do some prelim and concentrate on some allied issues which shall lay down the ground work for our main subject:
What happens after you die? This is our subject at hand. When dear Robert raised this subject he could not have imagined the kind of treatment it would be facing, from the tribes of atheists and theists. Whenever there is some problem, a mystery or an unknown entity, our first reaction is to ‘know’ about it, i.e., to understand it from every angle---to go at its very root. As death is directly related to life and life is related to consciousness, while both of these are the offshoot of ‘Creation’. . Thus all the three i.e., creation along with its manifestations-consciousness-life are inter-related and inter-connected, and shall have to be taken up simultaneously. Any entity in creation---including the creation itself---leaves its imprints (signatures) in the form of radiations and vibrations. Through these two sources the astronomers have been able to trace back to the time of event horizon to the reasonable extent. The living bodies too leave their imprints, at death, in the form of ‘vasanas’ (tendencies—emotional-bank of positive-negative tendencies) on (In) the mind, whose identity being cosmic, is infinite as Nature. However this proposition is not acceptable to many, as cosmic dimension of consciousness is not digestible to PS (physical scientists). NOBODY too differs on this account (Post 181 states that “This consciousness so far has not been proven to exist outside the body but nevertheless we are we contemplating an extension after death or before birth only because our selfish consciousness cannot deal with eternal nothingness”. This statement is incomplete (ls won’t describe it as wrong or fallacious) because like the extension of intelligence---not on the basis of bookish- general-practical-discriminative knowledge, which all relate to physical world--- individual conscious is also liable to elevate itself to the state of Cosmic-Consciousness. The physical state of the body at breathlessness has already been explained by NOBODY. A little more effort, a little further, and the state of ‘soul-effulgence’ is attained. It has been substantiated by brother IC. Bear in mind, unless we go through the roots of consciousness (which Harmonygirl refers to as energy), we will never be able to ‘know’ ‘That’, which we seek, and that is, presently, Cosmic-Consciousness. Like radiations, reflections, resound, vibrations and reactions are the cosmic fossils (signatures) which help in understanding the structural physical world against the backdrop of time; sound, images, feelings and spirit are the fossil signatures which determine in understanding the mystery of death and life, in the shield of life-force. The history of Creation is embodied in its creations and through the medium of their radiations, reflections and resound (vibration) PS have charted the map of the Universe as best as they could. Similarly the ‘history’ of living-bodies is recorded in the backdrop of consciousness, as sounds and images---these two never perish, hence are ‘stored’ (like vasanas in our mind & memory in our brains) in space, in their respective fields, in chronological form. Each living being emits sound and reflection (vibration and images), which are stored in space, corresponding to their quality of existence. Each living being has a brain, and all are equipped with memory centers (memory chambers), in which ‘memory/history’ is stored subject wise. As all celestial bodies, living or inert, emit special kind of vibrations and reflections (sound and image), which are in commensurate to their quality of life; coalesce together, according to the quality of their vasanas (tendencies) and create their respective fields. TV is a best analogy, as it relays the sound and images of the broadcaster all over the world simultaneously. These two never perish, but are embed in space for eternity. These two are the fossil record of the living beings. Life-force is the backdrop shield of consciousness in which these fields of ‘intelligence’ (memory-centers) exist. You know even our thoughts ‘use’ energy as fuel in their carries pulses. All of this is not the figment of imagination. Inner science is a way of life, based on rigid discipline of body-senses-mind. After years of their judicious practice, one becomes adept in the science of inner-self. Brother IC is adept in OBE (out-of-body-experiences). These are real, pl. learn these from him. He can teach you a thing or two. Then things would become very clear, otherwise all of above would appear nightmarish.
My dear Greg, we often tend to refer to wikipedia or other source sites for reference. What has happened to our creativity? Have we become slaves to our own ‘inventions or storage bins (computers). What is available in black and white is easily accessible to all. Why waste time on these waste-bins! (Ls referred to himself as a student of lit(t), not a master!) The other source of accessing intelligence is the memory centers. Those who are adept in the expertise of meditation have access to these centers by focusing their concentration on the required memory centre (chamber) and be acquainted to the latent knowledge of that subject. Intelligence: let us now focus on intelligence, which is the prime possession of human-beings. It is not bookish or acquired knowledge. Neither has it come from the physical sciences, as all that these sciences provide us is the knowledge which comes from the discovery of nature and its mysteries, which is merely information provided by Nature of its mysteries. An example; we plant a seed; provide it the requisite inputs, it ultimately grows into a full-fledged tree. The seed of mango tree grows into a mango tree and a seed of human being produces only a human being, and so on. Whatever is planted (cause), it grows (effect) into that entity only. We always know, as to what we shall get from the seeds we grow; same is case with Nature. Nature too is evolving from the ‘Seed’ (ORIGINAL-PARTICLE) of regressed matter, which came into being after the Big-Crunch. (It is not a theistic view). Thus knowledge gained from these ‘predetermined’ sources is not intelligence. It is merely a discovered data. In Nature there is nothing which is innovative or has its own intelligence, which could improvise on its own. All is decided by the ‘history’ which is embedded into each entity in nature. Each entity has in it, its ‘history/innate nature’ grilled into it. So what new is happening in nature (all replication, duplication, permutation) or for that in you! Our intelligence is what we have fed into it i.e., bookish knowledge, practical knowledge and discriminated knowledge. But, again, the source of it all is nature! We can call our ‘inventions’ as the works of our intelligence! But these are, again, based on the principles discovered from nature. Memory centers: you may be aware that there are memory centers in our brain, which store all the information received via senses. These centers are subject-wise. That’s why when we think about paintings, immediately the names of all painters stored in one particular memory-chamber (centre) come forth. Conscious is nothing but the shield (field) of active memory cells. These memory centers create their fields of intelligence in the backdrop of the mind, which is the composite shield of all the memory, both latent and patent, stored in these centers of memory. As each subject creates its own field of intelligence, which as a whole comprise/reflect as the conscious shield hovering these chambers. In nutshell; memory centers are subject-wise. Each subject creates its own field of conscious (intelligence) These fields of intelligence have their reflection in the shield of mind. As thoughts (which form intelligence) carry (have) energy, these automatically reflect in the space, which is full of energy. No atom in the cosmos is without energy. Thus our intelligence is sourced from nature; from whichever source it is acquired. It has energy as its carrier pulses. There is an interesting news item by AP, sourced from Hatoyama, titled “Mind over matter: when mere thought moves a toy with new technology”. “Hitachi’s Advanced Research Laboratory near Tokyo has developed brain-machine interface ap technology called optical technology…..” “Hitachi’s scientists are set to develop a brain remote controller letting users turn a TV on and off or switch channels by only thinking.-AP” This technique was highly advanced in ancient India. Even now there are ‘wise’ who have this capability. Nothing surprising! Mind and machine go together. If inner thoughts (mind) have power over matter, then it is very easily for it to ‘draw’ intelligence from the cosmic-consciousness, which is the life-force (sustainer) of the material world. On Truth and consciousness some other time! With love & regards.ls.
Re: What happens after you die? -
06-23-2007, 03:34 PM
If it cant be proven, it aint Science Maan...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard
Nice one Rajinder .... unfortunately, for us lesser Litt types the Wiki is very handy.
Truth as defined by Science:
A scientific theory must be testable. It must be possible in principle to prove it wrong.
Experiments are the sole judge of scientific truth.
Scientific method: observations, hypothesis/theory, experiment (test), revision of theory.
A "good" or useful scientific theory will make testable predictions of what should happen under new circumstances that are independent of the original problem or observation for which the theory was developed.
So you see, Rajinder, a Scientist (Atheist) has to not only overcome all the 'Theists' opposition, but then has to overcome the biggest enemy of all. He has to become a 'Devil's Advocate' to his own ideas.
Re: What happens after you die? -
06-23-2007, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar
If it cant be proven, it aint Science Maan...
Dip ... I am not sure I know what you mean ?
Rajinder ... Excellent post. To use but one example in your post:
Your contention that the Physical Sciences can explain radio waves emitted by TV broadcasts here on Earth which travel thru space in a physical sense forever. Therefore they must also travel (and exist) in a form of non-aligned consciousness. That is, someone receiving them, would have their own physical chemistry, their memory banks, altered by the information contained in the physical broadcast according to the information recorded by transmitters.
In effect, Communication is Consciousness, and that communication can contain a level of information not even available to the communicants, who pass it forever on until it reaches one who can access this information.
Have I got it right? Comment on this analogy --
There was once an english scientist, a communications expert, who had in a cage a rare Indian bird. The scientist was going to India to expose certain fakirs who were making claims that they could communicate over vast distances using telepathy. The scientist was very fond of the bird. He asked the bird if there was anything that it wanted while he was away, and within reason, the scientist would grant it.
The bird requested its freedom. The scientist refused but told the bird he would grant any lesser wish.
The bird requested the scientist to travel to a certain place in the Punjab, and there to a certain forest, and in that forest, which was the birds original home, to announce to all the birds there, who were his relatives, details of his imprisonment. The scientist, though saddened by the request, agreed to do this.
After many months, having exposed all the fakirs, the scientist returned. He warned the bird that he had some very bad news for him. He had gone to the forest and did as the bird had requested. Immediately one of the birds relatives, with a loud cry, had fallen from high in a tree. It was dead before it reached the ground.
When the bird heard this news, it to, uttered a loud cry and fell dead in the bottom of the cage.
The scientist, greatly upset, because he had been very fond of this bird, removed the body and placed it on the rubbish bin. Immediately the bird revived and flew to a nearby tree. "How so", said the scientist, "whats this"
"Now you know," said the bird, "that communication is not a physical transmission alone. You, who were unconscious of what you carried, bought to me my means of freedom, given to you by my relative in the forest in the Punjab"
The bird flew off to India. He was not very fond of the Scientist!
But Rajinder ... my argument is this, the Bird couldn't have done it without the Scientist. Perhaps we are all in this together.
cool bananas ... greg
'Blondie says I must hate all Brunettes. I'll try, but if I can't ... I'll love them both' ... graffiti on Tavern wall, Pompeii, circa AD 70.
Re: What happens after you die? -
06-23-2007, 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipayankar
Every thing in this Universe follows a logic. If we assume any sort of existance after life, then it defies all conventional logic..
All logic flows from our consciousness and its degree of awareness which is determined by the frequency of vibrations of the Alpha - Beta - Theta - Delta - or Omega brain waves and which frequency we are functioning from.
These different frequencies determine our level of conscious "awareness" which in turn determines our level of logic as the content of our degree of
"Conscious Awareness."
The Following User Says Thank You to Infinite Consciousness For This Useful Post:
