Is the Universe Open, Closed, or Flat?

[NotStein]

It's going to appear flat to us no matter what, because our tools are as warped as our universe is.

[Tina]

It's going to appear flat to us no matter what, because our tools are as warped as our universe is.

What does that mean???

[NotStein]

It means this. Imagine:
1) a piece of paper
2) a balloon

If you draw an equilateral triangle on the the piece of paper, each angle will equal 60 degrees (x3 - 180 total). If you draw the same equilateral triangle on the surface of a baloon, the angles will not equal 180 degrees.

However, if you live in the surface of the balloon, the measuring device you use to measure the angle with will also be bent ('cause you live in the surface) and you will measure the angles as 60x3=180. Weird, huh?

The next question is, does it matter whether you draw the triangle on the balloon before or after you blow it up???

[Tina]

It means this. Imagine:
1) a piece of paper
2) a balloon

However, if you live in the surface of the balloon, the measuring device you use to measure the angle with will also be bent ('cause you live in the surface) and you will measure the angles as 60x3=180. Weird, huh?

The next question is, does it matter whether you draw the triangle on the balloon before or after you blow it up???

Bent measuring device seems to compensate for bent surface to give accurate 3x60.*

But you cannot draw equilateral triangle on blown up balloon because by definition equilateral triangle needs 3 straight sides...impossible on curved surface - you'd have to draw curved lines...but then technically you are not drawing a equilateral triangle - it would be something else.

This is too strange!

[NotStein]

Yea, viewing from the outside (a higher dimension, 3D vs. the 2D universe of the balloon surface), the lines aren't straight and it's not an equilateral triangle. But for the balloon universe, the lines are straight, 3*60, and it's an equilateral triangle to them, 'cause their measuring sticks also reside 'in' the balloon surface, and are just as curved as the triangle. Think of the meridians (great circles) going from pole-to-pole around the earth. They would appear to be straight lines running N-S to us on the surface, but someone floating above could easily see they're not, because the curvature on the surface is very apparent to them, while its not to us. This is only an visual approximation, 'cause in the real universe, it's the fabric of space-time itself that's curved (which curves our measuring sticks), and is much harder to visualize.

[Tina]

This is only an visual approximation, 'cause in the real universe, it's the fabric of space-time itself that's curved (which curves our measuring sticks), and is much harder to visualize.

Listen I haven't worked out what's going on up the street - let alone what's going on in the real universe! However there is an article in last week's New Scientist with pictures of what your talking about...I'll definately read it.

[mkirkpatrick]

The universe is "open" to the idea of evolution!



regards michael.

[Tina]

The universe is "open" to the idea of evolution!



regards michael.

O B S C U R E

[mkirkpatrick]

O B S C U R E

Yes it is!
One
Begins
Solidification
Consciousness
Upon
Relative
Ecto-verse=Obscure?



regards michael.

[Tina]

Yes it is!
One
Begins
Solidification
Consciousness
Upon
Relative
Ecto-verse=Obscure?



regards michael.

That's even obscurer. But then we are on a difficult search and it's not going to be a smooth journey.