[mkirkpatrick]

I suppose that truth has to be wrought out in the texture of daily living before new truthe can be safely imparted,all right ideas are temporary in nature,and must eventually take their place as partial rights,and giveplace to greater truth.
A man may have grasped some of the lesser principles of the ageless wisdom so clearly,and be so convinced of their correctness,that the bigger whole is forgotten and he builds a thought form about a partial truth which he has seen,and which can prove a limitation and keep him a prisoner and hold him back from any progress.He is so sure of his possession of the truth,that he can see the truth of no one else.So convinced of the reality of his own embodied concept of what the truth may be,that he forgets his own brain limitations,and that the truth has come to him via his own soul,and is subsequently built into form by his personal separtive mind.He lives but for that little truth,he can see no other,forces his thought-form on other people,he becomes the obsessed fanatic and so mentally unbalanced,even if the world regards him as sane.It would seem that there is no finality in the presentation of truth,it develops and grows to meet mans growing demand for more light.
kind regards,michael.

[michellemfry]

Here's a couple of Einstein quotes.

"I never think of the future, it comes soon enough."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe."

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen all at once."

[harmonygirl]

Michael, I don't think that I agree that all right ideas are temporary in nature. I continue to struggle with the question of whether there is an objective truth, but the truth of love is not temporary (although its manifestation may be!)

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by harmonygirl Michael, I don't think that I agree that all right ideas are temporary in nature. I continue to struggle with the question of whether there is an objective truth, but the truth of love is not temporary (although its manifestation may be!)

Love is eternal and all embracing,but our limited
understanding of it does asyou rightly say waiver in winds of passion?

kindest regrdsmichael.

[harmonygirl]

but actually, now that I think about it, the idea of romantic love (along with universal love) stays the same, doesn't it? It's only the manifestation that changes? So wouldn't these truths be objective? Oh, unless they have to be realized by everyone, then that would be fleeting in the sense that they are not universally held?

[mkirkpatrick]

I think that you have it there, love is all yet so difficult to express in words.

kindregards michael.

[Guille]

SOCIETY FIGHTS (as Tolstoy's original meaning of the title of his book 'War and peace' was 'War and Society' but the comunist changed the meaning of the word he used from society to peace, and Orwell used the title of the book for the first statement ('war is peace')of the system in his book 1984).
TRUTH ENSALVES (as the quoted book 1984 states (2nd) 'freedom is slavery' and the science positivists state that truth freedomizes, then this statement).
WISDOM STRENGTHENS (again in reference to 1984, the third statement is 'ignorance is strength' and people have always thought about wisdom as making us weak, well not).

Those are three statements I give. Obviouslly the only one relevant here is the middle one for it shows that I think that truth doesn't set us free, in fact it does the opposite; we are condemned (as Nietzsche said) to search for truth and inventing such truth as objective.

[mkirkpatrick]

You make some interesting observations,Guille,though it appears that most of them if not all,are quotes from others,what have you to say for yourself!It would be unfortunate would it not my amigo,if one justquoted others,like those who quote chapter and verse from the bible,and say little or nothing
about their own views!Society fights,was one you quoted,yes we do fight,for I am part of society!And I fight for all children to be taught to look within and
re-find those inner spiritual truths thatare locked and vouchsafed within them
so that schools and universities will teach all their pupils the truth of inner
revelation and conscious expansion.
You further quoted,that truth enslaves,this I find utter non-sense-ical!Only
if one goes down the road of relative truth,and absolute truth,can one find
any merit in that statement.And finally a quote that at least has value and
merit,"wisdom strenghtens"I agree absolutely with that.Look foward to your reply??
kind regards michael.

[Guille]

None of the three statements of mine were quotes. They were my response to the statements by others, in particular the three statements in Orwell's 1984. I agree, people who quote and quote are not to be quoted. About society fights, I said it as that the only barrier between 'us and them' (title also of a great song from Pink Floyd), between the individual and the world, is the other individuals and their wills, so society is the wall dividing me from the world.

If you know the truth, then you are condemned to knowing the truth in particular that you know. That first doesn't make you have the Truth for the Truth would be all the truths, only. And we can't know that. We can only know part of the truth, and this limits us from knowing any other truth, nor whether any other fact is true or false. If we choose not to know anything--even though this is a very nihilistic way of gaining knowledge--then we can determine what is false, and know that the rest is true. Please don't confuse this logical derivation about the metaphysical implicatiosn of knowledge with Subversion's 'law of laws' which was in fact taken from several posts of mine in these forums and misleaded, just as many of the aspects of his toe.

[KAC]

For me the truth is Three fold.

Relative. My truth is legit, and your truth is legit.
Perspective. The way I see my truth is equally valid as the way you see your truth. If I see my truth the way you see your truth then it is simply more valid than if I see my truth only the way I see it.
Objective. All truths are legit in all frames, and some truths hold absolute in all reference frames, these are the golden rules.

Do to limit Perspective, and Reference frame, Objective truths are the hardest to descearn. Often the Objective truths will apply to every form of event-action that occures or doesn't.

Causality would seem to be of the Objective truths. Dependent Origin would seem to be of the Objective truths. The Three Laws of Dynamism, AKA Three marks of existence, would seem to be of the Objective truths. Even the Laws of Motion would seem to apply to every reference frame, and I am not simply talking about Physicality.

When one goes to it one can glimpse through the eyes of the ultimate observer and for that moment can know the mind of god. This is Satori. Transitory Enlightenment, roughly translating as Epiphany. If one can find enough of the Objective, Relative, Perceptual truths one can approach the boundries of Ultimate truth.

One begins to become unfettered by the limitations of the Wabi-Sabi senses of the Human being. For the mind is the greatest resource, allowing one the elegant tools of Virtual sense, which can percieve that which is unseen. One needs eyes to see. One needs a Mind to *know*.

I know that I don't know anything. I know that what I do know is that I don't know. Truth is god, all that groks is god, thou art god, I grok, therefore I am of he who is I am. I am Truth, therefore I am free.

Know that you are truth, know that god is truth and god can tell no lies. Know that the universe is true, and can tell no lies.

Then again I am but a fool, spreading foolishness. Listen not to me, but to the words of wise men, spreading their wisdom.

-Welcome to the carnival, ticket's please!
The Clown of the Universe.

(edit wise men, not wise me )