[dleviwing]

Guillermo;
I hope you don't truly believe I reduce philosophy to a meaningless nothing.
Each academic discipline has its own arenas of true application and those designed to stimulate the mind. I no longer have sufficient time left to debate those mind stimulating thoughts of philosophers. I prefer to concentrate on the productively useful philosophies of applications, like a more functional philosophy of reality.

Science without philosophy, creates mathematicians.
Philosophy without science, creates religions and governments.
I don't think we have different views, you just want to debate a non-issue.

Dave

[Guille]

Dave,

True. True is your first paragraph, true is your second paragraph,a nd, spetially true, is your last comment. I am a philospher, thus, I discuss issues whcih are actually non-issues, and I do oter stupid things for being such.

[michellemfry]

I have but one aprehension towards a Oneness Theory(Unified Everything), and that is what if it is only an absurdity that unifies the whole thing. Would we still accept it? Would we still want it? An absurdity is at least possible, as possible as any other unknown right now.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by michellemfry I have but one aprehension towards a Oneness Theory(Unified Everything), and that is what if it is only an absurdity that unifies the whole thing. Would we still accept it? Would we still want it? An absurdity is at least possible, as possible as any other unknown right now.

There are indeed many paths to the understanding of what is,and some or all of them my
or maybe not absurd,but there will be an eventual agreement by all learned
folks,and all the various disciplines will agree.The journey to the summit can have many paths,butthe view from the top is the same?


kindest regards michael.

[subversion]

Originally Posted by dleviwing Though I fear that Guillermo's prediction may dominate science and possibly prevent a true TOE from being realized for decades, it will eventually come to pass and provide an interpretation of reality that will allow us to understand the nature and attributes of our standard models. Unless the supreme thought entity makes its presence vividly known to the human race, I can only view this philosophy as metaphysical without proof or measure and only useful to achieve serenity of mind for those who prefer to believe. The solution is simple, not fantastic.

And have I not made my "presence vividly known" as you said? Indeed, it's all true, the TOE is indeed a real thing, and I am the one you have been expecting to tell you this. I've invented/discovered one very concise statement of truth which fully and completely explains the nature of EVERYTHING. This statement is the most simple and brilliant thing one can possibly imagine. Upon investigating it, however, it's full complexity becomes known, and answers to all fundamental questions can be found. Thus it will "provide an interpretation of reality that will allow us to understand the nature and attributes of our standard models" exactly as you have hoped. All your hopes and dreams I have shown to be true! I can show you too if you will only accept me my dear friend. The solution is both simple and fantastic!!

Originally Posted by Guille

Originally Posted by Guille Of course what I am saying is subjective, I'm a human being! And, as human beings are subjetive, all of what humans do is subjective, and science is done by human, as well as philsophy, so both are subjective.

An excellent point Guille. This is exactly my same point, that human understanding is a subjective thing no matter what. Thus subjective belief is all science has to go on in the first place, and thus belief forms the very basis for EVERYTHING. True objectivity is blowing in the wind.

Originally Posted by Guille I am a philospher, thus, I discuss issues whcih are actually non-issues, and I do oter stupid things for being such.

Do not let anyone convince you that philosophy is stupid. Philosophy is just as valid as science. No issue can be truly a non-issue because it's still an issue no matter what. All issues are non-issues in that respect. Do I smell inconsistency?

Originally Posted by michellemfry I have but one aprehension towards a Oneness Theory(Unified Everything), and that is what if it is only an absurdity that unifies the whole thing. Would we still accept it? Would we still want it? An absurdity is at least possible, as possible as any other unknown right now.

You ask a most profound and remarkably fundamental question which strikes me as nothing less than visionary. You actually get it don't you, or you at least have a funny hunch? So what will the people think if the truth turns out to be something utterly asburd? They will opt to ignore and not believe it right, as they have chosen to ignore and not believe the truth in the past when they have seen it, because the truth has probably been right in front of us all along but we weren't looking for something absurd? That's why my tactic is to try and prepare people for what they are about to realize: a truth that may be completely absurd. So do you understand, Michelle, why I'm trying to make people suspend their disbelief now rather than later, because by suspending their disbelief now they will hopefully not reject the truth when they see it and it turns out to be absurd? In other words, humans must have pre-emptive belief, not pre-emptive doubt, because pre-emptive doubt in the possible absurdity of the truth is what has prevented us from seeing the truth all along. You are so smart Michelle.

sincerely, subversion

ps. absurdity is a really good way to put it and I can't believe I never thought of using that word before. But you're exactly right. The TOE is absolutely absurd! But the idea of a TOE is absolutely absurd to begin with. So it makes perfect sense. It all makes perfectly absurd sense now!!!!!!! EXCELLENT =)

[michellemfry]

Richard Feynman once called nature absurd and he was pretty open minded to most of physics. I wish I could remember the context, but it was quite accurate and still funny. I think we are preparing ourselves lately. It just feels like that might be the case. Thanks for the kind words.

[dleviwing]

Mechelle;
It is interesting that you mention Richard Feynman in regards to a philosophy thread. He had very little tolerance for those he referred to as having woolly philosophies. He often commented on the absurdity of many philosophical endeavors that only promoted confusion to those things that normal people view as common sense.

The remark you refer to was made during a lecture he presented in New Zealand in 1979 at the AucklandUniversity. I believe he also stated it in is book "QED The Strange Theory of Light and Matter". It was in regards to the quantum electrodynamics of matter.

[mkirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by michellemfry I have but one aprehension towards a Oneness Theory(Unified Everything), and that is what if it is only an absurdity that unifies the whole thing. Would we still accept it? Would we still want it? An absurdity is at least possible, as possible as any other unknown right now.

Michelle,I have dug up this post of yours because I feel that it contains an important ingrediant that will make the recipe for the theory of the toe
cook much more tenderly?
Thatis the word absurd,and its cousin mr irrational!Without this aspect
included,there will be no final theory?

kind regards michael.

[harmonygirl]

but life by its very nature is irrelevant and absurd, yet still we live...do we disregard truth (as we view it) because it might be unpopular or depressing? in my view, that would be ridiculous...

[greenwaves]

Michael I couldn’t have said it better. I totally agree. I believe thought is what manifests all.

I am not a poet and I have not perfected the art of the human language so I’m sure someone could communicate this better, but I’m going to try…getting the ball rolling

Yes there is a unified explanation for everything. It is far more simplistic than we make it to be. We get lost in complicating the definitions of everything in order to better understand truth. I think it is very basic. Excluding what religion defines god as. God is the unified theory of everything. God is the simplest explanation for all that I know about science, math, love, balance…and everything else.

God (however you want to define god as) is not some abstract construct that lives in only a book or in parts of us or in parts of our universe or communicates with us only on Sundays. God is everything: every atom of carbon, every star, blade of grass, and every representation of energy. There is no part of our existence that isn’t god. God is simply all. Everything is perfect. Math is perfect truth. Everything is created and continues to create in a perfect symphony, in perfect truth. We may never be able to completely grasp truth, but it exists. Our physical bodies limit our abilities to identify all that is true. Maybe evolving the soul to exceed the limitation of the physical body is a way to be able to live, be, and understand all that truth is, but I don’t know.

Everything (and my definition of this word includes all that we think of as nothing) is whole, complete, connected, infinite, truth. God is truth.
In my opinion there is no disconnecting from one form of energy to another. Happy and sad are the same thing on the same infinite loop. I don’t think you can experience the infinite truth of any one property without experiencing the infinite truth of what we define as it’s opposite. I can’t appreciate the taste of salt completely if I do not have complete understanding, (or infinite) understanding of sugar. They are the same energy adding more layers of truth to all spectrums of energy. There are no mistakes, wrongs, imperfections, or evils. Everything is truth and infinitely balanced, weaved together to create balance. As humans we grow and create our experiences evolving towards a greater understanding of truth. Truth is god’s blueprints. Truth bonds us all and connects all energy as one. The natural laws of the universe are truth/god. If you follow the breadcrumbs, (math) you find everything including god