[tedjay]

Hi John,

Thanks very much for sharing.

There are 2 things to consider to see the problem, one is to be continuously aware of this fact, the other is to understand the primary motivation that it instills within us.

My view exactly. We always have to consciously monitor what is injected into the subconscious and know what the effect of the information might be. A healthy scepticism is my stock in trade.

Maybe to truly understand this I should post a paragraph or 2 that will give you an idea of my beginning?

You have led an interesting life. Don't keep it to yourself!

Kind Regards

Tedjay

[mkirkpatrick]

Subliminal advertising is the modern cancer that pollutes our airwaves and minds,although,supposedly now banned,I sometimes wonder if it is not somehow "slipped"
through,giving us all a "Mickey Finn" of mind-warping suggestions.


I remember a report of some 15-to 20 year ago of a chap in America pulling into a garage
and asking for a carton of "Lucky Strikes" cigarettes,when having bought them ,"he reflected" that he did not smoke,or ever had?

It turned out that a billboard avertisement a mile or so down the road,"Flashed" a sign
for one fifth of a second,suggesting you buy a carton of Lucky Strikes!




regards michael.

[everymansmedium]

Tedjay #8
There is one other thing that someone like me that is so different than the typical lot will see and not be a part of. There is a system of class distinction that is relative to the Capital Education system that most, that are inside do not even notice as it is happening. They just quietly fall into the slot that is prepared for them by the position they are in relative to their education and there position in there job and also the size of their bank account. When I run into this situation I have no slot to fall into, so I don’t fall worth a dam. I have learned ways to deal with these situations. They do not always make me very popular with those that expect me to fall into some slot that they have prepared. I am not beyond pulling out a hundred dollar bill and laying on the table and saying, “This says I am right, put up, or shut up.” I have done this to the QA manager of an aero space company while I was assistant to the test director. My test director almost fainted. They could not fire me because they did not want to let it be known that I was right and he was wrong. It was a situation that would have jeopardized the program. Just after this The QA rep for the other company insisted that I remain on the job. From that point on I did not get to see too many bosses.
I also was offered a job by this company.
I did not take the job, I stayed were I was and finished the job I started.
John

[everymansmedium]

Tedjay
Thank you very much for your recognition!
It is not often that I get recognition for my normally quiet efforts and experiences.

I will say that as of late I am being much less quiet. But now I do not need to depend on my ability to get any job.
So I do not need to worry about not getting work because of my (beliefs, thoughts or political platform)
I guess it is now my time to talk. I am in the process of writing 2 books. One is a Science Fiction, based on my TOE, The other is a political view that is generated also by the TOE, and the experiences during my 44 years of supporting myself, starting at age 14 and the 4 years of being reluctantly retired, After surviving colon cancer and 9/11 waiting for SSI to save me this coming march.
At this point I will build my robot and put it in the face of those that did not believe me. I will have the time, the money, I already have the model shop complete with all the tools and machinery including some of the best test equipment in the world that I bought broken on ebay, and fixed and calibrated. I look forward to my time for my research, on my ideas. I must make the point again to those that still may not understand. My research, My ideas, and my time is NOT A CAPITAL VENTURE. It is very hard to get people to understand to do for the sake of doing and the help it can be to those that need that help.
(For no other reason.) We are so programmed with the conflict of interest that capitalism inflicts upon us, that we begin to think of our effort as work. Then we do not want to work. It is capitalism that generates the idea of work. Did anybody get a grip on this? Doing for the sake of doing? This is our world people it is time we took it back. Maybe then we can play at what we call work. Do you want to see where our system of capitalism is headed for.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

John.

[mkirkpatrick]

Years ago I ran therapy groups for drug and alcoholic dependants when at times these sessions got somewhat heated,a cry would go up of "we're being brainwashed" my reply
would be that prehaps you are,but as your head is so full of cr.. is that such a bad thing?



regards michael.

[Graybeard]

I think there are at least three ways to understand if your views are the result of brainwashing.

1.. Can your views be proven. If not, then you must treat your views with a degree of caution, no matter how precious, and be willing to fairly evaluate other views.

1.. Can your views be disproven. eg: God cannot be disproven. It is not open to testing. Einstein's relativity may be disproven by experiment. It is open to testing. Your views must also be capable of being disproven otherwise you must treat them with a degree of caution.

2.. Carefully evaluate other viewpoints. If they are different but just as valid as yours then neither/none can be totally correct. You have not yet found the truth.

You cannot be brainwashed if you are continually open to new ideas. Its only when you have an 'idee fixe' that brainwashing becomes possible.

cool bananas ... greg

[Graybeard]

Originally Posted by safwan

On the contrary, I think if one was exposed to more than one culture or social setting, they are less likely to be biased or dogmatic, and more inclined to view reality in relative terms, and to think critically.

Rgrads, Safwan

Safwan

I think Austin was referring to someone bought up in another culture. Not someone exposed to many different cultures. Both points are valid.

cool bananas ... greg

[safwan]

Originally Posted by Graybeard

Safwan

I think Austin was referring to someone bought up in another culture. Not someone exposed to many different cultures. Both points are valid.

cool bananas ... greg

Thanks a lot, Greg, for the clarification.

I feel Austin was trying to express two contradictory ideas,

One is stating that if we had been brought up in another culture we might be able to note that we were brainwashed.

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

[size="2"]If we believe in ideas that were handed down to us merely (arbritrarily) from geographical, sociological, or familial sources, then we may have been unwittingly indoctrinated, especially if we can note that had we been born elsewhere, or hung with a different crowd, or had been in another family.. SIZE]

The other idea is stating the opposite, that had we been brought up in another culture we might be just as strongly brainwashed.

Originally Posted by austintorn@aol.com

.. had we been born elsewhere, or hung with a different crowd, or had been in another family, we might be just as strongly epsousing some other, but quite different, "cult" belief.

Which to me looks confusing ..

Anyway, my apologies to Austin and others if I had missed Austin's point.

I find everymansmedium's "dissent" experience very illuminating in the context of the question put by Robert " How can you know if you're brainwashed". In my (post # 3) I was talking about collective awareness undergoing a "paradigm shift" as a result of a crisis in a dominant culture or ideology. John's (everymansmedium) experience (# 7, 9, 10 , 13 & 14 ) is both very interesting and useful. It sheds light on creative/ dissident trends /currents which are more relevant to individual awarenss rebelling against a dominant culture.

Therefore, on the individual level, you may not know if you are brainwashed unless you have dissediant tendencies. On the collective level, a paradigm shift comes as a result of a crisis in dominant culture or ideology, when contradictions and cracks start to appear in its fabric/structure that were not apparanat before except to the dissident.

But again I may be here taking "brainwashing" in a more wider cultural sense than is intended by either Robert or Michael.

I wonder : Are the brainwashers aware that they are both brainwashing and being brainwashed??

Best regards, Safwan

[everymansmedium]

I wonder : Are the brainwashers aware that they are both brainwashing and being brainwashed??

The people that are in control of our media system are well trained in the psychological effect of everything that they toss at us. They know exactly how to make you respond or not. Just like the engineering companies know that the product you just bought will fail shortly after the warranty runs out. I know I did that kind of testing as an engineer. I was a test engineer for most of my life. Do you think other capital industries are less diligent to there stock holders than an engineering company.

After all that I have said about our society I think it reasonable that I put it all into its proper context.
Capitalism is the most progressive form of government, it is also the most realistic. It is exactly like the jungle that we were evolved from. We did eventually learn to build a home within some solid walls that would keep the jungle out while we learned to become civilized inside with our family. We now need to build a wall of laws around our social functions to protect it from the jungle of capitalism. Capitalism makes wonderful things like washing machines and computers, this is what it should do. It has no business in the judicial system, education system, political system, medical system and communication system.
Until we can get our politicians to admit to this we will continue to send our children to die in wars for the control of resources and they will brainwash us to believe that we must.

The brainwashing is a normal reaction to our environment. It is not going to go away. But to have people trained in its use to control the population is truly an evil attack on our free will. What we need is to simply be aware as much as it is possible to its actions and it motivations. The average person on an average day is truly only conscious and in a decision making state for less than a ½ hour per average day. The rest of the time is spent day dreaming while a functional program is running its course. We are all subject to suggestion during that semi aware state that is the majority of our day. We at one time were beginning to develop laws that were to protect people. But because of the paid lobby those days are gone. Now we write laws to protect the companies from the people.

I appreciate the positive response from the people here. I am pleasantly surprised. Thank you all. What I went through I would not wish on anybody, But I also would not change a thing now as it has given me an insight that makes me feel like a very wealthy man, and the wealth that I have you can not get with money.
Thank you
John

[austintorn@aol.com]

I was trying to say, in a sentence that was too long and clumsy, that an arbitrarty belief is highly suspect, for it was just made up by the particular culture.


A Moslem person might say that Mohammed received the right scoop from God from an angel in a cave and that he is to be listened to, not Jesus, for we had witnesses there at the time—and if you don't believe this, you will not be rewarded in the afterlife. It says so in the Koran.

A Christian person might say that Jesus is THE prophet, not this Mohammed guy, and he is even divine, being the son of god, for we had witnesses there at the time—and if you don't believe this, you will not be rewarded in the afterlife. It says so in the Bible.

A Jewish person might say that you are both wrong; forget Jesus and Mohammed; there is only the God of the old testament, for we had witnesses there at the time—and if you don't believe this, you will not be rewarded in the afterlife.

A Mormon might say that Jesus spent his first 30 years in the USA and gave Joseph Smith the right scoop. Sorry, but all the other scoops were wrong. (A Mormon is also running for President and spent 30 months in France trying to convert people to his "right" way. 2 were converted.) It says so in our Bible.

A Lutheran might say no, God gave the correct scoop to Martin Luther. All others were wrong.

An ancient Roman or Greecian person might have said that the gods lived on Mt Olympus.

Need I go on?

All are arbitrary beliefs based on nearby cultural influence of heresay of ancient legends.

(Let's put them all in the same room so they can see that the other's fervor matches their own rightness.)

As Graybeard noted, God has been conveniently located outside of any and all points of detection. Faith in any God then becomes exactly as the word "faith " is described: a belief in the unseeable supernatural, a rather silly stance for anything, if you ask me.

What is realy even sillier is that these man-made Gods (like God the Father) are not even good role models in any way, shape, or form—so bad that many religions have abandoned the Old Testament altogether.


I hereby proclaim that a Cosmic Egg formed the universe, but that it's remains and any other affilations with the universe are invisible and operate in totally undetectible ways. Please convert since I am right.