Deranged 'group-think' definition for 'insanity'.

[RascalPuff]

May it suffice to say that it matters not how large a group of people may perpetuate a series of apparently reasonable conclusions that are otherwise based on a false premise: they're still, all mistaken. The following circumstance is an example of how such wayward dynamics can occur...

In a series of harsh exhanges between two oppositional elements it came to pass that one side of this argument projected the statement that 'the definition for insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'. This happened fairly recently, at a time when all participating adversaries had access to the internet, where they (apparently) Googled 'definition for insanity' and retrieved a quote from Einstein that in fact does say the above definition for insanity. Because Einstein said it, the adherents to this definition evidently felt that they stood on unassailable ground; moreover this rigid dogma was projected on a physics buff whose work is based on that of Einstein.
Meanwhile, the clinical/legal definition for insanity is when an individual or group is incapable of caring for themselves and/or not responsible for their actions, or, when a person or group is a physical threat to themselves or others.

As regards the Einstein quote, it was taken out of a context of applied experimental science in a measured, correspondingly specialised and highly controlled setting.

Colloquially - and scientifically - speaking, it is extremely difficult and often not possible to actually keep on 'doing the same thing', and there are as many examples as there are existential events and human activities, such as, quasi ritualistic movements, excersizes and procedures of swimming or walking across a river; which engages the age old anecdote that one (or more) individual(s) 'cannot cross the same river, twice'; neither can one act out (exactly) the same golf or tennis stroke or swing. Fishing also entails ritualistic repetitive motions of preparing tackle and baiting hooks and/or casting lures or nets. None of the actions are exactly the same and consequently it is (with the exception of some controlled scientific methods and environments) nearly impossible to do exactly the same thing twice. Yet, the perpetrators of this skunk fight (one of whom holds a semi Bachelor's degree in psychology & computer technology) clung to their obsessed 'definition' of insanity - apparently 'secure' in the knowledge that their intransigence was based on a quote from Einstein.

Object lesson: the cited group kept repeating the same mistake, based on their flawed perception that it was based on a statement by a recognized authority.

Refer, 'Conformist, group aggression: the most common, the most dangerous and the most difficult to discontinue'. - Eric Fromm, The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness

"One must avoid the obstinate error of thinking they understand something that they don't actually understand". - (paraphrased) Robert Pirsig, Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence.

[austintorn@aol.com]

If I could perform the same exact perfect tennis swing every time then I would become unbeatable.

[Graybeard]

'the definition for insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'.

In Quantum Mechanics this expectation is routinely met ??

And its this uncertainty in the result that drives people insane ...

"One must avoid the obstinate error of thinking they don't understand something that they actually do understand". - Greg, Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence.

rotflmao ...... greg

[timeparticle]

The willful giving up all of sanity in order to pretend to be insane and fit into a world, a matrix of others lost into insanity. The degradation appears infinite and hopelessness to gain back sanity is ever present, as this is the only true agreement that the others have in a world of insanity.... At times, there is only waiting for the door to open for a way out.

[RascalPuff]

"We live and die in an insanity factory - a portion of which is often the denial or ignorance of it." - Timothy Leary

[timeparticle]

There will never be a time of insanity like this. The leaders are chosen for there abilities of insanity to perpetuate darkness, appearing only to be of the most sane, and intelligent, and capable of people. So, we are led by the artfully insane, only to have been left with the thought that we aren't sufficient enough to create even more insanity to maintain and survive in such a privileged darkened place as this.

[G_burnett]

Insanity is a dimensional value we give to normalcy or the measure of the norm of human individual persona. the Norm is no more then the majority of persona ... do we really dare to call one insane? You can do this being you would be the majority but it does not mean you would be right ... in fact by all personal observations it would be that persona you call insane that has the right to call the majority insane. What a paradox.

Kind regards, graham

[labelwench]

The majority of history's greats were all considered to be 'insane' in their time, because their thought processes ranged from the norm. How many brilliant people did history never gain from, because they were put to death as insane, perceived as a threat to the society of the time.

Yet, the 'artfully insane' as TP describes same, have often gone on to become the leaders of nations, with some of their actions most commendable, and other actions the most degrading our species has known.

Whether one is judged to be 'brilliant' or 'insane', may just a matter of location and audience.

[G_burnett]

....
Whether one is judged to be 'brilliant' or 'insane', may just a matter of location and audience.

I think Buddys famous words are a good example of such a view possible to take at the time "Booggah booggah booggah said to his girl as he got on the bus .. the Buddy Holly story ..

[SB_UK]

The label of insanity attributed to {people,ideas} which will lead to a fairer society on a global stage (species level).
Since this idea comes from ToE - it may be generalized across evolution from the quantum interface up.

The 'just plain poor' idea may be dismissed without resorting to the 'insane' label. Pejoratives (the term 'Insanity' being used in the sense 'Are you mad!') are only used when a reasoned argument cannot be formulated to explain why the idea is wrong; this form of challenge ('Are you mad!') is not acceptable in a properly human society.
A properly human society explains why, does not bully opposing opinion into silence under threat of reprisal - instead keeps the option open for future scrutiny if there's insufficient evidence available at that point in time.

The label of insanity attributed to {people,ideas} which will lead to a fairer society on a global stage (species level)
- the label is made by people (the vocal, small minority with power) who will lose their unfair positions of power through introducing any such change.
With time, the small minority has expanded to include the set of high earners within each country -
perhaps to include the majority within a select few countries in their entirety (the West enriched in these such countries) ... ... ...

Specific examples of vested interest groups which have misled people into reasons for policy/actual changes
- for exclusively vested interest group gain
1. Republicans (pharmaceutical industry funded) opposing American healthcare reform.
2. Margaret Thatcher's government privatising human necessities.
3. The British government refusing to join the Euro.

In each case, false arguments were introduced and used to attempt to convince the electorate into accepting their (hidden) selfish (not in the best interests of all people) mode of thinking.

False arguments made
1. Money payable
2. Money saved
3. Money control

Actual underlying basis for policy
1. To increase the party's power and capacity to control normal people.
2. To increase the party's power and capacity to control normal people.
3. To increase the party's power and capacity to control normal people.

~*~

... ... from a day or so ago [link]... ... ...

'You don't have to be bipolar to be a genius – but it helps ... '
Study reveals that high-achievers are far more likely to be manic depressives

... ... for the same reason that we begin to ready ourselves to depart a train when we see that we're arriving at our destination.

General question - what should a high achiever aspire to 'high achieve' in ?
On each and every level of structured reality, the high achiever (image link) is associated with {suggesting,validating,attempting} all of species level changes.

~*~

~ Excellent choice of quotes ~

'One must avoid the obstinate error of thinking they understand something that they don't actually understand'
(paraphrased) Robert Pirsig, Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenence
... lay the beginning in a distinct explication of what is meant by thing, reality, existence: for in vain shall we dispute concerning the real existence of things, or pretend to any knowledge thereof, so long as we have not fixed the meaning of those words
George Berkeley, 1710

The very vast majority of communication fails because people attempt to communicate with the same words with sufficiently different meaning to lose sense; 'obstinate' because neither side sees the misunderstanding and opinion polarizes -
- talks breakdown
- wars begin
everybody loses.

General question - what are people trying to say to each other ?
People are trying to work out how to be happy, realising in the process that they're happiest when everybody is happy.
The point of communication is to reach an understanding on how to achieve equality for all people.
Words and the expression of selfish subconscious fears, however, serving to prevent change.

To simply (then) put together the ideas being expressed by Pirsig and Berkeley (above) (as lower innate drives),
- as our means of crystallizing the problem which our higher innate drive to species level equality is up against
... is required to thwart.