Particle Waves, Born vs. Einstein, Seasnakes and Little Ants

[Graybeard]

Thank you...that was the grain of it. I see it as uniform, but you point is very well taken that there are just two schools of perception on this. Greene's point was that quantum mechanics defied imaginative perception and it was that I disagreed with.

BTW I also believe in a FS. It would be great if you'd like to point me to a discussion about it concerning measurement? That sounds incredibly interesting! Cheers

No offence .... but I see Greene as a 'paparazzi' of Science. My only measurement is that it was in a state of Symmetry ?

An asymmetric (discrete ?) break led to our Universe ?

NB - If you wouldn't mind, an elaboration on how you see the motion as random would be great. I would love to have more insight there. Many thanks

Perhaps you would like to read Dave's blog on Toronics .... its the best here in my opinion ... altho I don't agree with the outset ....

CLICK

All right, I’ll offer about 200 words to see if you pick anything out of them to comment on.

I think I understand why you say random motion because that is the highest order of chaos. Uniform motion would not have the “engine” to do anything if I get your position; I probably don’t. But just to answer your question about how fundamental my fundamental is: The universal medium is a concept about a perfect liquid that carries spherical waves without friction and that fills all space. And it is not random chaos; it is and always was a complete, intact arena landscape across potentially infinite space. An arena equates to our known and observable universe which is a mature arena in the expansion phase, hosting life. The arena landscape consists of arenas like ours in all phases and when expanding arenas intersect and overlap, gravity is able to overcome expansion momentum and the galaxies in the overlap space collapse into big crunches. Crunches burst into expansion of the most fundamental form of UM produced in the crunch from the galactic remnants that went into the crunch. Matter re-forms when that most fundamental form of UM intersects with the already existing microwave background. An intact arena full of galaxies contains a huge number of hospitable planets and life is generative and evolvative to coin some words.

I need to 'ponder' for a while Bogie, patience

greg

[austintorn@aol.com]

Austin, sidetracked we are, but that's fine, maybe elsewhere I could begin another thread about this dream theory.

In context there, researchers showed that it appeared the cycling of schizophrenics in and out of psychotics states was nearly dreamlike. The explanation I offered was that since dreams are a cognitive help by subconscious to cope with emotions (that don't have an automatic cognitive solution in our conscious state) that psychotic episodes could be an indication of emotional overload and a need for more REM than they can get in 24 hours. The cyclical nature of the episodes points to this. More opacity in imagined visuals would point to this too. In dreams the images and voices presented don't seem to be coming from us either, and we even analyze dreams as though we did not create them ourselves (looking in dream dictionaries LOL).

We take for granted our ability to cope with emotions and the ability to process information cognitively while awake. There are a lot of gaps here. Emotions are simply an alert; there is always a decision to be made. Conscious activity is fraught with perception problems, distractions, fight or flight issues, delays, forgetfulness, etc. The emotional nature of dreams and the activation of the logic/reasoning centers indicate the subconscious is filling in the gaps. As it is treatments for schizophrenia involving sorting out emotions has been hugely successful. That's therapeutic relief, but REM provides natural relief. It's not that schizophrenics are suffering from a lack of dream (though if any person does, their minds and then bodies will eventually give out) it's just that the best thing in nature for them is probably a good draught of dream.

Thanks, Stella, and always good to hear from one so responsive and interestingly alive in many areas.

Today I was kind of drifting in and out of sleep, getting over a cold, which is not a bad deal overall, and had some lucid dreams in which I could again inspect the near perfect modeling of the scenery, even down to some of those whirligigs of fuzz floating through the air, which I thought was a nice touch.

I hovered in the air, amazing some onlookers, and so forth, some perhaps thinking me to be a wizard. If they were to shoot me down, or some such thing, I’d just reverse the dream, saying “Nah, it can’t go this way” and replay it with more success.

Well, day is long done for you, and now for me, so let us clink our cups together and have some fine draughts of dreams spilling forth…

[Bogie]

Austin. Wake up, wake up, you were dreaming ...

[Graybeard]

All right, I’ll offer about 200 words to see if you pick anything out of them to comment on.

I think I understand why you say random motion because that is the highest order of chaos. Uniform motion would not have the “engine” to do anything if I get your position; I probably don’t. But just to answer your question about how fundamental my fundamental is: The universal medium is a concept about a perfect liquid [edit: change that to a perfect fluid] that carries spherical waves without friction and that fills all space. And it is not random chaos; it is and always was a complete, intact arena landscape across potentially infinite space. An arena equates to our known and observable universe which is a mature arena in the expansion phase, hosting life. The arena landscape consists of arenas like ours in all phases and when expanding arenas intersect and overlap, gravity is able to overcome expansion momentum and the galaxies in the overlap space collapse into big crunches. Crunches burst into expansion of the most fundamental form of UM produced in the crunch from the galactic remnants that went into the crunch. Matter re-forms when that most fundamental form of UM intersects with the already existing microwave background. An intact arena full of galaxies contains a huge number of hospitable planets and life is “generative and evolvative” to coin a phrase.

Hi Bogie ...I have a number of concerns with your description ?

Does the perfect 'liquid' suit the concept for explanation .... or do you really mean a fundamental liquid, not reducible to anything further ?

Have you considered our 'Cosmic Horizon' in relation to the size of the Universe ? If so, which one is the arena for our purposes.

If gravity only affects mass, why does a big crunch occur when arenas overlap ? And why would a big crunch burst into an expansion ?

cool bananas ... greg

[Bogie]

Hi Bogie ...I have a number of concerns with your description ?

Does the perfect 'liquid' suit the concept for explanation .... or do you really mean a fundamental liquid, not reducible to anything further ?

Hi Graybeard, thanks for the questions.

I edited my post after you responded to say perfect ‘fluid’ instead of ‘liquid’ but to answer your question it is not reducible to anything further. The UM carries waves and the waves transfer energy with no friction. The UM is non-reducible but the density (frequency and amplitude) of the waves in the medium is always changing at any given point. The energy in any given patch of UM is defined by the average wave density in that space.

Have you considered our 'Cosmic Horizon' in relation to the size of the Universe ? If so, which one is the arena for our purposes.

Our event horizon defines the arena. I call it the extended Hubble volume to mean that it goes beyond the discernible horizon if there ever is one and extends out to include everything causally connected to the “Big Bang”. Beyond our arena is a greater universe composed of arenas. I call it the arena landscape of the greater universe.

If gravity only affects mass, why does a big crunch occur when arenas overlap ?

A mature arena before it intersects and overlaps with a nearby arena is composed of Galaxies/Clusters that are all moving away from each other due to the conservation of expansion momentum. There is a stage where the inverse square rule defines a point where the clumping effect no longer works in the expanding arena and instead of clumping (except occasional galaxy clusters), galaxies and clusters move on away from each other at an accelerating rate.

When the expansion momentum is interrupted by intersection, i.e. two converging arenas, the galaxies in the overlap go into swirling rendezvous with the oncoming galaxies on a grand scale of what would be akin to what would happen to the stars as two galaxies collide. Gravity compresses the ‘captured’ galactic material and starts building a big crunch at the center of gravity of the overlap.

And why would a big crunch burst into an expansion ?

cool bananas ... greg

The gravity of the crunch compresses the hell out of the galactic remnants. Mass requires a tiny amount of space to function and gravity is a function of mass. When the core of the crunch reaches a certain critical limit (referred to as the critical capacity of a big crunch) where there is insufficient space for matter to function, matter is negated out of particle form and into the most extreme wave density possible. The core of the crunch is no longer matter and no longer emanates gravity, it is dense state UM. Its only characteristic is expansion potential that cannot be realized due to the compression of the crunch.

Fortunately, as the negated core of the crunch grows it out paces the accretion of galactic remnants, the expansion momentum of the core begins to exceed the compression of gravity and the crunch bursts into expanding dense dark energy containing no particles.

It is a fresh low entropy (closest we can get to zero entropy) ball of energy in the form a huge arena wave of energy conserving the particle energy from negated galactic matter from which it is composed.

It is expanding into the vacated space where the crunch formed which is filled with the universal cosmic microwave background energy (UCMBE) that had been imprinted on all space over an infinite history of arena action.

To produce the UCMBE, mature galaxy filled arenas emit EM into space and the thermalized UCMBE is out there and interacts immediately with the arena wave to bring about what could equate to random chaos (tiny wave impacts) in the expanding UM. The expanding dense state energy in the UM is at the point of lowest entropy and is the ‘engine’ to form matter to fill the new arena. This might be similar to the random chaos in what you call the FS, I think.

Cheers .

[Graybeard]

Hi Graybeard, thanks for the questions.

I edited my post after you responded to say perfect ‘fluid’ instead of ‘liquid’ but to answer your question it is not reducible to anything further. The UM carries waves and the waves transfer energy with no friction. The UM is non-reducible but the density (frequency and amplitude) of the waves in the medium is always changing at any given point. The energy in any given patch of UM is defined by the average wave density in that space.

This is sailing close to the wind ..... but ultimately all is waves ... so why not ... lol

Our event horizon defines the arena. I call it the extended Hubble volume to mean that it goes beyond the discernible horizon if there ever is one and extends out to include everything causally connected to the “Big Bang”.

If expansion is driving space .... then the distant galaxies will disappear beyond our cosmic horizon .... so how will the UM keep up .... unless it is traveling faster than light ?

A mature arena before it intersects and overlaps with a nearby arena is composed of Galaxies/Clusters that are all moving away from each other due to the conservation of expansion momentum. That is the stage where the inverse square rule defines a point where the clumping effect no longer works in the expanding arena and instead of clumping (except occasional galaxy clusters), galaxies and clusters move on away from each other at an accelerating rate.

Maybe you just answered the above ??

When the expansion momentum is interrupted by intersection, i.e. two converging arenas, the galaxies in the overlap go into swirling rendezvous with the oncoming galaxies on a grand scale of what would be akin to what would happen to the stars as two galaxies collide. Gravity compresses the ‘captured’ galactic material and starts building a big crunch at the center of gravity of the overlap.

A Collide-a-scope ??

The gravity of the crunch compresses the hell out of the galactic remnants. Mass requires a tiny amount of space to function and gravity is a function of mass. When the core of the crunch reaches a certain critical limit (referred to as the critical capacity of a big crunch) where there is insufficient space for matter to function, matter is negated out of particle form and into the most extreme wave density possible. The core of the crunch is no longer matter and no longer emanates gravity, it is dense state UM. Its only characteristic is expansion potential that cannot be realized due to the compression of the crunch.

Fortunately, as the negated core of the crunch grows it out paces the accretion of galactic remnants, the expansion momentum of the core begins to exceed the compression of gravity and the crunch bursts into expanding dense dark energy containing no particles.

Why wouldn't it just form a black hole ......

It is a fresh low entropy (closest we can get to zero entropy) ball of energy in the form a huge arena wave of energy conserving the particle energy from negated galactic matter from which it is composed.

It is expanding into the vacated space where the crunch formed which is filled with the universal cosmic microwave background energy (UCMBE) that had been imprinted on all space over an infinite history of arena action.

To produce the UCMBE, mature galaxy filled arenas emit EM into space and the thermalized UCMBE is out there and interacts immediately with the arena wave to bring about what could equate to random chaos (tiny wave impacts) in the expanding UM. The expanding dense state energy in the UM is at the point of lowest entropy and is the ‘engine’ to form matter to fill the new arena. This might be similar to the random chaos in what you call the FS, I think.

Cheers .

I haven't got the concept correct yet ... no fault of yours as you are very good at transferring your ideas ... will tink on it ...

cool bananas ... greg

[Bogie]

This is sailing close to the wind ..... but ultimately all is waves ... so why not ... lol



If expansion is driving space .... then the distant galaxies will disappear beyond our cosmic horizon .... so how will the UM keep up .... unless it is traveling faster than light ?



Maybe you just answered the above ??



A Collide-a-scope ??

I like that and I bet LW will appreciate it, . We spoke of collide-a-scopes earlier.

Why wouldn't it just form a black hole ......

Exactly, an ultimate black hole. This would differ from any black hole that could form with less content because the content has to increase through accretion until the critical capacity is reached. It then bursts as described earlier.

The content is coming from two parent arenas and maybe about half of the galactic material from each parent enters the crunch. Thus the galactic remnants that form the ultimate black hole amounts to the equivalent of one full arena's worth of content.

I haven't got the concept correct yet ... no fault of yours as you are very good at transferring your ideas ... will tink on it ...

cool bananas ... greg

Understandable. Thank you for taking the time to follow up and I hope I can clarify my ideas as far as they go.

Cheers .

[MJA]

God doesn't play dice Stella but your theoretical science does.

=

[Bogie]

Hi Stella, now I’m feeling bad for hi-jacking your thread and discussing my TOE which might have killed the enthusiasm you had going. I’m going to see if things can get back on track on your thread by moving past my interruption. Greg and I can talk about my ideas anytime and anywhere if it is a few casual posts but I’m afraid I took that liberty too far and killed your thread . Sorry. I’ve found Greene to be very interesting and he offers many good discussion starters. Please keep the discussion going .

[labelwench]

A Collide-a-scope ?

Originally posted by Bogie

Cute play on words, lol......

Is not all motion contingent upon collision, which allows for continuance and change?

As for being a 'thread-killer', I think you are taking too much upon yourself, Bogie.

Threads wax and wane according to the content under discussion, but more incumbent upon the interest and energy of various posters, who may have a variety of other priorities and demands upon their time to contend with.

Perhaps Stella and other posters are busy at the moment?

Given that another two inches of precipitation in white form arrived last night, I shall be much occupied this day in finishing my first pass in their relocation, before deciding if the time is appropriate to take a second run at them.