why God can't help amputees ?

[MJA]

The truth is that faith only obscurs the truth.

MJA

[Graybeard]

Your missive is misplaced; it should be shot at the system or us. Had the gunner been through a congenial upbringing at home, he would not have sought to avenge it by destroying the life of another. He was only taking revenge of his lost childhood. Neva Roger was an ideal student; she was doing the right thing at the right time. Only we should rue the system which produces these freaks. Protection of life and property is our responsibility, why blame Lord Jesus.

Rajinder .... I understand the point you are making. My point is that religion or the Lord Jesus is superflous to our lives. That is, we would no longer give authority to witchdoctors, we make more practical decisions ourselves. Of course our system is to blame.

You speak as though humanity has lost something, degenerated in fact, and needs to be stopped and turned around. I take a more evolutionary viewpoint. Our ancestors were primates, and we have risen on stepping stones of our former selves. I don't see this as a matter for reproach, rather something that we have achieved ourselves. There is a long way to go, you despair too early.

best regards ... greg

[r.p.bibra]

greg;Neither Jesus has become superfluous nor humanity has degenerated and need to be turned around. Humanity as a whole does not compose of just 2% elite class, which incidentally has imposed upon itself the role of being its conscious-raiser (as if it does have one!) or the leaders. In usa the education system is not value (human/moral-values) based. This part is left to the parents and the church. If the present system of education does suit its purpose then why cry hoarse about its ramification! We are producing emotionless robots of flesh and blood, who are brought up in the atmosphere of terrorism, fundamentalism, warmongering and material culture.
Obviously our intelligence has evolved from Stone Age to present age of science and technology. But we forget that, although we have made quick strides in material science during the last fifty or so years, but in other fields relating, especially, to finer nuances of life, we have taken a backward slide. Just fifty years of material science is not enough to do away with thousands years extension of human thought. You cannot ignore the logic of Socrates and espousing of Vedanta philosophy by Ashtavakra? Our ancestors were talking about ‘atoms’ and ‘genes’ ten thousand years before. It is beyond comprehension as to how you dissociate your intelligence from that of your ancestors? It is an unbroken chain of human intelligence, and it is foolish to compare ‘our’ intelligence with that of ‘our’ ancestors, because ours is the consequential (effect) fruit of the past’s ‘cause’!
Ls like IC has experienced the ‘taste’ of consciousness (Self), so for them Lord Jesus is as real and divine as Michael or GB. (for your kind information, the ls does not subscribe to any religion, sect and faith, for him humanity is one race and love is its religion) The problem with present generation is that they cast most pernicious aspersions without first verifying the facts. It is an attribute of intelligence that, unless one has fully discriminated the subject at hand from all possible angles, one should not close ones’ door of logic with rigidity and prejudice. Give yourself a fair chance and a supporting challenge to refute the former by following their spiritual nuances and be sufficiently equipped, so as to be in a position of ‘authority’ to call their bluff!
If there is existence, there is consciousness and there has to be a system of its realization. In our part of the country this system is called spirituality. This has nothing to do with witchcraft, exorcism and satanic sciences (black magic etc).
Yes, science has long, long way to go; we have found our hearth and the purpose of life, have you? Wishing you all the luck.love&regards.ls.
Ps. do you think Neva aught to have prayed to the moguls of armament-industry, media barons, osama, bush, sadam or mother Teresa her savior, Lord Jesus?

[Graybeard]

Dear Rajinder ... Please note that after this post I will put you on my 'Buddy List' ... this will allow you into some draft essays I am working on in my Blog. They are not finished -- they are only drafts. But they are pertinent to this Post.

Humanity as a whole does not compose of just 2% elite class, which incidentally has imposed upon itself the role of being its conscious-raiser (as if it does have one!) or the leaders.

Dear Rajinder .... I think you have a pre-conception of me that is not entirely correct. I am not of the 2% elite nor am I American. Please read the draft entry in my Blog 'Calcutta 1977'. It refers to your above quote.

Obviously our intelligence has evolved from Stone Age to present age of science and technology. But we forget that, although we have made quick strides in material science during the last fifty or so years, but in other fields relating, especially, to finer nuances of life, we have taken a backward slide.

I do not concur that we have taken a backward slide!! Because we have not gone as far forward and as fast forward as you expect does not mean we have gone backward. We have simply gone forward at a slower rate than your expectations! Knowledge takes time to disseminate!

Just fifty years of material science is not enough to do away with thousands years extension of human thought. You cannot ignore the logic of Socrates and espousing of Vedanta philosophy by Ashtavakra? Our ancestors were talking about ‘atoms’ and ‘genes’ ten thousand years before.

Rajinder .. In my private blog read the intro to Bell's Theorem. It refers to the above quote.

It is beyond comprehension as to how you dissociate your intelligence from that of your ancestors? It is an unbroken chain of human intelligence, and it is foolish to compare ‘our’ intelligence with that of ‘our’ ancestors, because ours is the consequential (effect) fruit of the past’s ‘cause’!

I do NOT disassociate my intelligence from my ancestors. I believe our DNA has not fundamentally changed since we speciated along with Neanderthal. (60,000 yrs ago) We are simply using our intelligence in different arenas, with the added benefit of our ancestors hindsight.

If there is existence, there is consciousness and there has to be a system of its realization. In our part of the country this system is called spirituality. This has nothing to do with witchcraft, exorcism and satanic sciences (black magic etc). Yes, science has long, long way to go; we have found our hearth and the purpose of life, have you?

In my opinion this is only true for organic matter, inorganic material does not have a consciousness. You cannot say, for example, the red hot planet Mercury would not exist unless somewhere, someplace there is consciousness. At least if you claim that, you must also supply supporting argument.

Wishing you all the luck.love&regards.ls.

Ps. do you think Neva aught to have prayed to the moguls of armament-industry, media barons, osama, bush, sadam or mother Teresa her savior, Lord Jesus?

I think Neva's prayers became part of the cosmos, like all prayers .. I don't think it matters who they were directed to.

Kindest of thoughts ... Greg

[r.p.bibra]

"I don't think it matters who they were directed to"
let it rest at that.well said.love.ls.

[r.p.bibra]

Dear Rajinder .... I think you have a pre-conception of me that is not entirely correct. I am not of the 2% elite nor am I American. Please read the draft entry in my Blog 'Calcutta 1977'. It refers to your above quote

Ls knows that you are not American and do not belong to 2%. They are the epitome of modern society that’s why they were singled out, otherwise they are not deficient in anything, ethical, dharmic and spiritualist. In any religious place, or a spiritualist master of some repute and of genuine credentials, devotees from the west follow enmass. In case of natural calamity in any part of the world, they are the first to come out with generous donations. (by the way when tsunami hit India it (India) did not accept any help from outside world. It took care of itself. It is fully geared now. There is much difference between 1977 and 2007)


do NOT disassociate my intelligence from my ancestors. I believe our DNA has not fundamentally changed since we speciated along with Neanderthal. (60,000 yrs ago) We are simply using our intelligence in different arenas, with the added benefit of our ancestors hindsight

There is no doubt, our ancestors were primitive, the way they were criminals and looters!
What happened to the original settlers (aboriginals are they called now!) of Australia, U.S.A and Canada etc., perhaps they (their souls) needed to be purged?

In my opinion this is only true for organic matter, inorganic material does not have a consciousness. You cannot say, for example, the red hot planet Mercury would not exist unless somewhere, someplace there is consciousness. At least if you claim that, you must also supply supporting argument.

Either you are completely unaware about the science of spirituality or you are being willfully ignorant. Like the toe will never, ever, be demonstrated in the laboratories, as it (formula) would be too subtle. The universe, itself’ is its physical projection (or model), same way the whole cosmos is the projection of the ‘Divine’. It can easily be tested in the laboratory of human body. For this we have to equip ourselves, as we do in the case of secular education, with certain disciplines. There are many, like IC and the ls who have done it, so why can’t you! You are not that knave to demand the ‘Creator’ of the creation to present before the ‘scientist’ to prove Its existence, when we are, as yet, ignorant about Its creation/creations! First thing first; firstly we shall discover/know the ‘toe’, thereafter comes the turn of Its producer. It is the way of the science. The spiritualists have a short-cut; without first knowing the creation, they ‘know’ about its Creator! How come? It is a pleasant mystery, but easily soluble. IC is better equipped to guide you.
Wishing you well. Love&regards.ls.
Ps, it is a pleasure to interact with you, brother. Keep on the digression, there is a lot to learn from you.

[Graybeard]

In case of natural calamity in any part of the world, they ( the USA) are the first to come out with generous donations. (by the way when tsunami hit India it (India) did not accept any help from outside world. It took care of itself. It is fully geared now. There is much difference between 1977 and 2007)

Dear Rajinder ... reading between the lines here, you seem overly defensive about India. But you need have no worries on that score, for me India is one of the most advanced civilisations. I know of no other civilisation that has so harmoniously solved the problems of its overcrowded citizens and its scarcity of resources. For me Indian culture is the guiding light that all others should be following. Soon, along with China it will have one of the strongest economies of the world, and will assume the powers that go with that economy.

There is no doubt, our ancestors were primitive, the way they were criminals and looters!What happened to the original settlers (aboriginals are they called now!) of Australia, U.S.A and Canada etc., perhaps they (their souls) needed to be purged?

When I am speaking of ancestors I am referring to the Ancestors of Homo-Sapiens. To me all mankind is one race. I am not referring to different societies. The clash of societies and cultures is another subject.

The universe, itself’ is its physical projection (or model), same way the whole cosmos is the projection of the ‘Divine’.

You are not that knave to demand the ‘Creator’ of the creation to present before the ‘scientist’ to prove Its existence, when we are, as yet, ignorant about Its creation/creations!

First thing first; firstly we shall discover/know the ‘toe’, thereafter comes the turn of Its producer. It is the way of the science.

There seems to be a contradiction here. If we are as yet ignorant about its creation/creations then we cannot possess a short cut that allows us to know about the creator? perhaps you are only referring to the Scientific approach?

The spiritualists have a short-cut; without first knowing the creation, they ‘know’ about its Creator!

Rajinder .... I accept that you take a spiritualist approach while I take a more 'physical' or material approach. If Science does not take the spiritualists short-cut... surely it will still arrive at the same answer?

Without first knowing the creation, they ‘know’ about its Creator! This is the spiritualist way as you say.

Science on the other hand is content to let the understanding of the creation lead it to the 'creator'. Surely this is the more objective approach. To interpret the 'creation' with a preconceived idea of the 'creator', could lead to errors in judgement.

There is no real contradiction here. If the Spiritualists are right Science will eventually arrive at the same conclusion. It seems to me that the Spiritualists are more concerned that Science will arrive at a different conclusion to theirs. So be it.

kind regards ... greg