How can the suffering of one Holy man wash away the sins of mankind?

[melanie]

leskey:

Melanie, isn't this an oxymoron? There an awful lot of the "not" enlightened, surely then that makes them "not" part of the ONE. I mean, if we ARE what we BELIEVE, then wouldn't the converse also apply?

Leskey, Greg, Covis, and all.

Life is an Oxymoron full stop. [UnAvoidable]

I repeat there is nothing to get or become, for IT 'we' are already THAT

When you look at some-thing in front of you, that 'thing' is space for you're face.

Where is Space ?
IT is in Awareness
and while it has no location,
all that has location appears in it.
''Out There'' is not 'out there' IT is inside your head.




To go even further beyond 'our' finite and limited understandings ..
I have this quote from Ramana Marharshi:

Question:
Does the absolute know itself?

Bhagavan:
The ever-conscious is beyond both knowledge and ignorance.
Your question presupposes subject and object but the absolute is beyond both.
It is knowledge itself. > > > > prime cause perhaps?

[melanie]

Hi to all,

I can asure everyone that I am not divine like Jesus was, but just a frail, finite human being searching for the truth that will set me free. I found faith in Jesus the saviour of all humanity. To me Jeusus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and it it is only through Jesus that I know , I can come to the Father, God almighty creator of heaven and earth. Jesus said, "if you love me keep my commandment"; and to me , Jesus' commandments are the natural laws which governs the universe and our human life and society.

I find it difficult to understand some of your writing, Melanie; for instance when you wrote: "Only 'we' as the 'assumed individuals can save ourselves." ? I believe that humanity was saved through the cross of Christ and that is way I like to wear the cross, it remains me of the saving act of Jeus. The cross also remains me of all the loving and heroic sacrifices, hardships, toils of men and women that has shaped this world and humanity. The cross also encourages me and urges me on, to fulfill my part in the evolutionary process of the humanisation of our planet and the universe.

Yours Cosvis.

Covis 'you' are already divine.
AS there is only one divine being.
What i mean by ''only 'we' can save ourselves is...''

As finite individuals...
When we realize that we are not 'our' body
'we' are the Infinite Awareness in which 'our' body arises.
The body is the temporal finite, it is the experiencing.
Awareness is the eternal.

No-'thing' can actually exist at all..... 'things' are finite 'appearances'
appearing on 'our' screen of awareness.
Yet 'we' mistake these 'appearances' for who 'we' really are.
Basically 'we are' and 'we are not'
Awareness is neither effected or disturbed by the images 'appearing' and 'disappearing' on it's screen.
Like the characters and landscapes of your night dreams, 'appear' real.
They are no-where to be found on waking.

There is no separate 'you's' and me's'.....it's all ONE BEING
expressing 'appearing' .... AS ..... the 'you's' and the 'me's'

IT's a kinda magic when you think about it.
Very mysterious.

melanie.

[Graybeard]

IT's a kinda magic when you think about it.
Very mysterious.

melanie.

Your spot on there Mel. Sorta makes ya feel like theres a kinda Hush ... all over da world ... tonite

But then, I suppose, Richard, Karen and Jesus were all Carpenters anyway.

So listen very carefully
Closer now and you will see what I mean
It isn't a dream
The only sound that you will hear
Is when I whisper in your ear
I love you forever and ever

At least they wern't all Hermits called Herman. rotflmao

no offence mel, just my warped sensa humor.

cool bananas ... greg

[melanie]

Originally Posted by cosvis

Hi to all,

I can asure everyone that I am not divine like Jesus was, but just a frail, finite human being searching for the truth that will set me free. I found faith in Jesus the saviour of all humanity. To me Jeusus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and it it is only through Jesus that I know , I can come to the Father, God almighty creator of heaven and earth. Jesus said, "if you love me keep my commandment"; and to me , Jesus' commandments are the natural laws which governs the universe and our human life and society.

Just to go over this underlined point again.

Jesus wasn't saying I will save you.
He was saying 'you' are already saved through me.
He was saying 'you' ARE me. You too are Jesus.
For there can be no-others.
There is only ONE divine being.
There is no-other's to search truth and freedom.
Jesus was saying 'you' ARE already truth and freedom.
You are all free.

It's when we separately ID-entify, with the 'apparent' separate self, ego.
we automatically imprison ourself in the mind [cut ourself off]
We assume there is a 'separate self' that needs to be saved and freed.
Jesus was saying if you understand my message,
you will taste eternal freedom and eternal life.
He said that 'you' are already 'Unconditional love'

Covis i think we are saying the same things here.
In that there is no-body to be freed or saved.
We are already THAT

melanie.

[Graybeard]

Just to go over this underlined point again.

Jesus wasn't saying I will save you.
He was saying 'you' are already saved through me.


melanie.

Whew ... thats a weight off. So no matter how bad I get ... I'm goin to heaven when I die anyway. Just like a skyrocket!!

cool bananas ... greg

[melanie]

Whew ... thats a weight off. So no matter how bad I get ... I'm goin to heaven when I die anyway. Just like a skyrocket!!

cool bananas ... greg

Greg i know you are only pulling my leg.

We are already in heaven you know.
You can be as bad as you want.
Or you can be as good as you want.
It's the tax we pay for being human.
Welcome to paradise.
Here-NOW no-where
And every-where.
And it's all FREE today.

PS....no-one dies.
That's the good and bad news. LOL

Ps again, i'm not this serious in real life haha!

[Profpat]

Cosvis, Cosvis, Cosvis, my friend, surely you don't mean this:

"Jesus said, "if you love me keep my commandment"; and to me , Jesus' commandments are the natural laws which governs the universe and our human life and society. "

Jesus had only One Commandment; To Love. Love God, Love your neighbor.

Natural laws are just that, LAWS of NATURE. If I roll a bowling ball down the street, it rolls because of INERTIA, it slows down due to FRICTION, caused by GRAVITY. These are natural laws we all have to follow.

Jesus's commandment to love, we don't have to follow, but if we love Him, we will. So simple and yet so difficult to do.

Best to all,

Pat

[cosvis]

Hi to all,

Some of your writing, Melanie, seems to me to be rather mystical. I understand when you state: "There is only One divine being". There is only one divine God who created all things, but surely all creatures are not divine; they are finite and depend on God for their existence. Mystically speaking I can see divine traces in creatures that point towards the infinite One divine being, but surely in reality creatures are not infinite in themselves.

Pat, I agree with you that Jesus summed up all of God's moral laws in the two laws of love; love God above all things and love your neighbour as yourself. But surely God's moral laws that govern society and that are summed up by the Ten Commandments in the Old Testaments, are also part of the natural laws of God, according to which God wants humanity to live. You are right, the physical laws that govern the universe are God's natural laws and so are also the laws of logic that govern right reasoning.

I try to view the total cosmic reality from three different perspectives, the physical, the rational and the spiritual or personal. Each field of cosmic reality have their own field of enquiry and particular laws according to which the cosmic reality can be viewed and explained. All three aspects of cosmic reality are govern by natural laws that originate from the intelligence and infinite power of God almighty.

Yours Cosvis.

[melanie]

Hi to all,

Some of your writing, Melanie, seems to me to be rather mystical. I understand when you state: "There is only One divine being". There is only one divine God who created all things, but surely all creatures are not divine; they are finite and depend on God for their existence. Mystically speaking I can see divine traces in creatures that point towards the infinite One divine being, but surely in reality creatures are not infinite in themselves.

Yours Cosvis.

Covis, There cannot be divine traces, For all manifestation is ONE purely divine BEING. [ALL AT ONCE]
My writing appears mystical, makes no difference, IN this conceptual universe we ARE.
In our multi-language world.
We can get lost in translation.
Language is ANOTHER way of expression.
Each word reflects the spirit which can't be named.
Each word a gift, its value in exact proportion
to the spirit in which it is given.
Everything i steal i give away.
The heart of every being is the same.
It is the divine heart beating as ONE
'expressing' in the - Many of the ONE.
Too much information can cloud our natural clarity.
Its easy to get ones energies entangled in wordy-dreams.
Ordinary functional Senses. Lead the way.

God the divine being is both the personal and the impersonal being.[Simultaneously]
God the divine being is the finite and the infinite.[Simultaneously]

There is only ''Infinite Beingness''
In which all manifest 'things' arise and fall.[Finite]
Including every animal, creature, rock, ocean, plant, and human.
the God that created all 'things' is not separate from IT's Creation.
There is no division or distinction.
It is all ONE TASTE



Quotes..

"When my Beloved appears,
With what eye do I see Him?"
"With His eye, not with mine,
For none sees Him except Himself."

The Self appears as both
The animate and the inanimate world;
Yet It always remains in Its own peaceful state;
It is always pure consciousness, as calm as the sky.

Though appearing as the animate and inanimate world,
The Self remains forever One.
Where then, is the division?
There is no duality, it is clear to me.

From: Dattatreya’s Song of the Avadhut

[SB_UK]

Hi guys -

it's really simple -

---1---
here's a man (<- pick your favourite prophet here)
---2---
he's good (moral)
---3---
behave like him you will be happy
---4---
he's dead now because you crucified him

yupsy -
now try and remember that being RATIONAL is very important and try and read a little about EMERGENCE.
It's simply a process of nature -
I've described a little about this in my Intro here - however if you want more - just ask NICELY.

If you haven't heard of emergence -
perform a google on
EMERGENT PHENOMENA/ON,
EMERGENCE.

---eg---

---google hit on [emergence + tree] ---
in trees
http://necsi.org/guide/concepts/emergence.html

---google hit on [emergence + cicada] ---
in insects
http://www.cicadamania.com/cicadas/

So - guys -
it's really not that hard (but not meant in a patronising way)

- and please, please, please don't be rude to me for no apparent reason -
I don't really mind -
just though grow tired of pointless ad hominem attacks.

- ps -

check out ToEF::Robert's link on 'Rational thought' -
for more on the principles of ad hominem attacks -
and the work of Suzette Haden Elgin -

... ... if you'd like even even more - on proper method of proving that I am a 'right proper' fool.