Does it take an intellectual to knock God??

[Mikal]

First off..

I don't use that word because I think its pointless. As I was saying before the society is always changing. Every day can be an apocalypse. Just depends on what group your talking to that day. Seriously that and the end of the world stuff. People have been claiming its the end of the world every hundred years for the past two thousand at least. What is sane about that? I only used that word to express my discontent in its common every day use, it make me sick. Every day I wake up expecting the apocalypse, just as every day is a new day.
　

Your absolutely right. But your wrong about no intelligence and no engineering. They do a good job of making people think they need to buy into their ideas or products. Whats to understand? Their business plan and how it will serve you and others in the future. Most people are immersed in greed, they want every thing. The good thing about some one wanting every thing is that it gives you a chance to make back your money by suppling their wants.
Each business is shaped by who ever and if they did a good job of it they will grow.
Like I said the most important part is to understand who your buying into and what good will come of doing business with them. Some people feel they don't have a choice. Well if that is the problem then the solution is to give them one and if you plan it well you will come out on top of your competitors. Help me help you, the best business plan in the world.

Free trade... I can't argue that the choices made by this nation to support their "interests" across the seas has failed them completely. The worst thing is they had no back up plan, nor have they stopped contributing to the idea. Best thing is to consolidate, revamp, cut losses and start investing in ourselves. If we do it right we can get out of debt. The question is how long? Just depends on how ambitious we are and thats fifty fifty.

You know GB...we have a tendency to take a word and freeze it into one thought, however behind words are "meaning" so if you consider the real meaning then the word apocolypse will no longer bother you. Words tend to freeze reality into a fixed idea but that is just a fallacy....

I see you understand the dynamics of social engineering and how intelligence can be used in the wrong way to manipulate not only the masses but also those things like the economic force within our enconomy....it surely is best not to remain unknowing of this reality because it is better to understand that mindset and its effects on our lives rather than to be pulled and pushed as a mass in that collectivized mind-set and suffer from its effects.....

Yes those we call experts and specialists knew exactly what they were doing....the archetype of a class society can take on tremendous dimensions over time and in history has always produced a demoralized people.....



Mikal

[greenbug]

I see you understand the dynamics of social engineering and how intelligence can be used in the wrong way to manipulate not only the masses but also those things like the economic force within our economy....it surely is best not to remain unknowing of this reality because it is better to understand that mindset and its effects on our lives rather than to be pulled and pushed as a mass in that collectivized mind-set and suffer from its effects.....

Yes those we call experts and specialists knew exactly what they were doing....the archetype of a class society can take on tremendous dimensions over time and in history has always produced a demoralized people.....

I don't understand the dynamics of social engineering or how intelligence can manipulate or change our economy. I don't understand physics, psychology, sociology, "or why Los angels don't fall into the ocean. Because those lucky suckers they don't have to work, build 3D billboards and huge thirty foot smurfs".

I don't understand any thing, which is probably the reason why I question every thing. I'm constantly lost as to how and why people see things the way they do. Its like every thing I sense I can't take as real. Nothing is real to me, not even me. But I want to know what every one else knows. Yet every thing every one says is misguiding or misleading. Nothing adds up ever. So how do I ever know what I know is right? Nothing never..

[SB_UK]

Calculations are that even on current interest rates the US debt of $11T will accrue annual interest of $1T - it is comlpetely irredeemable (...unless, the Chinese show up on the doorstep to claim payment in full)! The next phase will be increasing interest rates (good for those who have cash in the bank) and the polarizing affects of rampant inflation... .

thanks -
you're absolutely correct,
and we all know you to be absolutely correct

and yet out there - overpaid experts tell us that it's business as usual

if it moves consume !

from lunchtime 4 days into the third quarter of 2010.

The nodding heads of the group delusion is enough to drive the average objective individual into madness in disbelief at those with unbelievable belief systems.

[arthur]

I don't understand the dynamics of social engineering or how intelligence can manipulate or change our economy. I don't understand physics, psychology, sociology, "or why Los angels don't fall into the ocean. Because those lucky suckers they don't have to work, build 3D billboards and huge thirty foot smurfs".

I don't understand any thing, which is probably the reason why I question every thing. I'm constantly lost as to how and why people see things the way they do. Its like every thing I sense I can't take as real. Nothing is real to me, not even me. But I want to know what every one else knows. Yet every thing every one says is misguiding or misleading. Nothing adds up ever. So how do I ever know what I know is right? Nothing never..

My Dear greenbug,
As a 'lucky sucker who don't have to work' let me be the first to offer you, without any acrimony, my congratulation on what appears to me to be your genuine display of, what I can only call, contrition. Emotionally, it must have been very hard and embarrassing for you to admit publicly that all of those "I think's", "I believe's", all of those intimations, in your posts, of your vast knowledge, all of those judgements and criticisms were, as I and I am sure others must have recognised, based on pure B/S.
Now that you have taken this first step, (even though you must be cringing with shame and remorse over recognising that your displays of rudeness, pomposity and arrogance and dismisivness were supported by no more than, what I have called elsewhere, a flimsy ego, which in its self is only an extension of fear and ignorance) …..this first step towards humility by openly announcing "I don't understand any thing." you have in fact taken an extremely important first step towards developing that increasingly rare phenomenon known as 'intellectual integrity.'

On the assumption that your statement "But I want to know what every one else knows" was and is truthful and on the assumption that it was and is a genuine plea, I, greenbug am willing to offer you and others of your ilk, although they may not be as brave as you, 'keys' which if viewed with that allusive intellectual integrity will help mitigate any adverse 'feelings' thrown up through trying to hide or disguise being so un-knowledgeable.

my kindest regards…arthur.

[SB_UK]

'll catch up with the rest of this thread in a while -
though

…..this first step towards humility by openly announcing "I don't understand any thing."

<- I agree

Fix oneself upon less certain grounds -
acquire humility -
one's mind opens to diversity

and allows the individual to differentiate between 'good and bad'

- where 'bad' is (in effect) an overly simplistic perspective on reality.

Take
(for instance)
the

'God is a white man versus God is a black man wars'

-

'bad' because of the overly simplistic representations which God gains -
- through overly simplistic minds which seek to 'know God'.

Their certainty (lack in humility) leads to (thoroughly pointless) war.

[greenbug]

I'm sorry to disappoint you, I wasn't saying it to be remorseful. I was saying it in respect to those who may listen to my B/S. So they do not take what I say to be truth or absolute. I maybe making a guess and I maybe wrong. In saying I know nothing it forces them to rethink every thing I've said and come up with their own opinion. All the I think's or I believe's are just my opinion and I gave some supporting information onto that opinion. I'm not sure what you think I may have been implying, yet again you could have asked. What I may or may not know might be based on B/S, I don't know what to tell you about that other then it works for me, until something better comes along. Ignorant, sure, Arrogant, perhaps a bit but I really am sorry if I criticize, I don't mean to judge prematurely, but I do have a tendency.

Am I shameful, for living, for making mistakes or speaking my mind? No. I'm not. I've made too many mistakes in my life and have felt bad for too long to let that bother me any more. Every one makes mistakes and I know if people don't accept it then I don't need them and they don't need me. So I don't feel shameful for what I've said. It may have offended others but if they do not speak up then I can't make my self clear, as none of my intentions are to hurt others.

Am I a pompous? I have 'some' dignity but I don't think of myself as being important. I'm glad that others may converse with me and they may make me feel important to that conversation but I hold no real position of importance, in their life to what they know or can learn. I don't assume I will make any difference once all is said and done but if it happens cool.

So in all what I said was true. I do want to know what others know. I don't think I understand it all but I try to understand some(what I can). I will listen to you Arthur and will do so with out dismissing it with out due consideration. Do not feel threatened by me or think I will not contribute. But if you don't consider what I may say you may never help me in understanding you. I am un-knowledgeable so provide your remedy.

[SB_UK]

People are dissatisfied and try to put their dissatisfaction into words.
By trying, one becomes sure that one has the solution to one's unhappiness -
next we observe as the individual seeks to recruit people to their way of thinking.

The problem -
incomplete ideas are offered to people who naturally do not understand them.

Any grouping which results is not held together by deep seated belief
- instead in the need to be a part of a 'gang'
- where one's life then becomes to uphold the traditions of the 'gang' -
whilst swearing to lay one's life down in the defence of one's 'gang' against other competing 'gangs'.

The only solution to the problem of man -
- is ToE -
since when one understands reality (scaled ToE) -

- one finds oneself freed from the frailty which results in human beings acting like animals -
more explicitly

in the actual loss of the instinct which defined the animal -
and which must be re-defined in man

- in the loss of the 'social impulse' which held animals together as a group
- and which needed to be re-defined in human society -
- by virtue of the differing (more complex) pattern of forces which characterize the infrastructure of human society
- which strong human society need crystallize out from within for real-ization.

- in the loss of the drive to divisiveness.

[leskey]

Thank you for your candour (candor), gb.

You're not alone: no one "understands it all." Each of us can contribute none-the-less and, in return, learn something we didn't know before.

IMHO, science still needs to learn the value of the holistic perspective...

[Mikal]

May I make a note at this time that I did not post to GB to cause him to be dressed down.
I do not consider his post as BS, I respect that he has something to say that expands the discussion.

Arthur although you are avoiding me, and in that avoidance seem to be displaying almost what seems a false sense of superiority maybe not intentionally but certainly as expressive.....I would ask you a simple question...why not stop dribbling the ball and begin the game??

Is this a discussion or a thread to address people down???



Mikal

[arthur]

[
I'm sorry to disappoint you, I wasn't saying it to be remorseful. I was saying it in respect to those who may listen to my B/S. So they do not take what I say to be truth or absolute. I maybe making a guess and I maybe wrong. In saying I know nothing it forces them to rethink every thing I've said and come up with their own opinion. All the I think's or I believe's are just my opinion and I gave some supporting information onto that opinion. I'm not sure what you think I may have been implying, yet again you could have asked. What I may or may not know might be based on B/S, I don't know what to tell you about that other then it works for me, until something better comes along. Ignorant, sure, Arrogant, perhaps a bit but I really am sorry if I criticize, I don't mean to judge prematurely, but I do have a tendency.

Am I shameful, for living, for making mistakes or speaking my mind? No. I'm not. I've made too many mistakes in my life and have felt bad for too long to let that bother me any more. Every one makes mistakes and I know if people don't accept it then I don't need them and they don't need me. So I don't feel shameful for what I've said. It may have offended others but if they do not speak up then I can't make my self clear, as none of my intentions are to hurt others.

Am I a pompous? I have 'some' dignity but I don't think of myself as being important. I'm glad that others may converse with me and they may make me feel important to that conversation but I hold no real position of importance, in their life to what they know or can learn. I don't assume I will make any difference once all is said and done but if it happens cool.

So in all what I said was true. I do want to know what others know. I don't think I understand it all but I try to understand some(what I can). I will listen to you Arthur and will do so with out dismissing it with out due consideration. Do not feel threatened by me or think I will not contribute. But if you don't consider what I may say you may never help me in understanding you. I am un-knowledgeable so provide your remedy.

Again, My Dear Greenbug,
I, and, I feel sure that you, cannot be oblivious of the fact that in these T.O.E. forums there are basically two dimensions of "discussion" The dimension where people genuinely hope, by their involvement, to glean, gain or absorb information, insights, or understandings of the subjects of their choice by sensibly contributing. And the other, where people who have no genuine affiliation, concern or even interest in a subject or thread but who use it as a conduit for what they manifestly feel as "fun" or as a conduit to engender stuff in them selves like emotional sensations, false indignation, argumentativeness and/or just as a conduit to "show off" their knowledge of L.T.U.A.E.
Now here you should recognise that I am not criticising, I make no value judgments as to how it works or how it is run, or how it is used which is not to say that I don't recognise the value or the importance of both dimensions to the people who use them"

Having set that preamble now to 'the point', greenbug. I am one of those who has a penchant for the more serious and sensible dimension, although occasionally when I read posts which I consider negative or detrimental to the sensibleness of the subject in question I do feel a desire for a foray into the second dimension. This was the case which prompted my post to you.
The irrelevances of your posts to my proposition and your lack of reference to it (this was not only you) your lack of openness to my attempts for feed back and my attempts to keep the proposition to the fore (this also was not only you) your reference to aspects of my personality (again, not only you) all of these things rolled harmlessly off my rhino type skin only leaving a hint of sadness that it is this second dimension, of which you were part, which prevents any really important subjects being seriously discussed. In this particular case the subject which I believe to be the most profound and important "thing" that you or any one else will ever have the opportunity to understand. Then I read your--- "But I do think they way every one is frustrated over your inability to describe accurately what your talking about is funny as hell" and thought "is this a rabbit trying to bite a badgers bum" and then you presented me with a public admission of your absolute ignorance, Now My Dear Greenbug, can you imagine anyone who had experienced the above treatment bypassing such an opportunity to foray into the second dimension to have some fun with the perpetrator of that treatment? I did have a little bit of fun but not as much as I think you and your ilk have. Acerbity and sarcasm overt rudeness and gratuitous dismissiveness is not really my thing, I think that I will just revert to be being the boring old fart that I have always been.

..arthur…