Does it take an intellectual to knock God??

[arthur]

As a non Christian I would like to point out the legacy from which you all benefit as the result of Un Christian Roman Catholicism .

For something like 1500 years Roman Catholicism had dominated, controlled or influenced the European centres of power which came out of the unification of the hundreds of squabbling, and fighting principalities. It maintained an element of order (believe it or not) in Europe. As time passed the part of Roman Catholicism's doctrine which included the history of the Jews, namely the Ten Commandments which were, over time, eventually adopted and incorporated into the Laws of most of the countries of Europe.
Gradually, partly due to England's break from Rome and Martin Luther in Germany's Protestantism and with the gradual sophistication of societies the basis of the Ten Commandments becoming an essential element in the Law's of the land prevailed and which became the essence of 'The Law' and accepted by the proletariat i.e. you and I as the norm. It is the laws emanating from Moses' stone tablets via The Un Christian Roman Catholicism and the Christian concepts of Protestantism which has influenced you and I to be what we are. It is having grown up within the security and the protection of the Law, it is this laws which allows you and I freedom the say what we want and to do what we want, it is these laws which has influenced us to expect from our neighbours that which we would offer. It is these laws which has given us the concept of right and wrong. I could go on and on and on but I am sure that you intellectuals can extrapolate for yourselves that you are what you are as the result of so many beautiful honest people accepting and believing in the concept that there is an all loving almighty god who looks over us and who will ultimately protect us.

The following is paraphrased from condensed snippets from my book 'The (None religious) Universal Law' which in effect is 'The T.O.E.' soon to be blogged and downloadable for free.

Denouncing the existence of the Christian/Judaic God by people, who claim an intellectual prowess, on the grounds that there is no proof of its existence is pretty bizarre when one considers that the proof of almost anything they claim to believe, unless they are very very old, will only be supported by the equivalent of 'science' journal snippets and hearsay and not by any physical fundamental research by themselves. (which to me begs the question of their intellectuality)
Surely I can't be the only one to cringe with embarrassment for them when I do hear or read their misguided and false claims and premises which indicate a complete lack of understanding, not only of the history of the religion but of its importance and role in the evolution of Mankind including them selves. This also includes the evolution of "science" as a academic discipline, given that for thousands of years the worlds only centres of academia and record keeping were directly related to a religion.
There can be few of us who are not aware that the whole of "civilisation" is on the brink of what might turn out to be, the equivalent of Armageddon. Consider what it is that has held the Sophisticated "Christian" Civilised Society that 'we' are all a part of together. Consider firstly from your own personal perspective the characteristic of you expecting others to adhere to the basic laws and the rules which have evolved out of the basic tenets of "Christianity". The laws and rules which have been the bonding meme of this society of tens of millions of free thinking individuals. The laws and rules that you have never really questioned, the ones that you have absorbed and which have become an integral part of your being, from being that young child and screaming "But that’s not fair" to the maturity of becoming spontaneously distressed by the activity of others who do not respect the same values. Now, and here is the rub, consider the

[Graybeard]

Hi Arthur .... tell me more.

cool bananas ... greg

Very interesting ... please go on ...

greg

(I must admit, that the first post, the concise history of religion was good .... very good ... lol)

[Profpat]

Hi Arthur;

I perceive you to be an agnostic. I myself a theist. Are you an atheist Greg?

Perhaps a little discourse, on the 3 sides of the issue.

You mentioned your book "THE UNIVERSAL LAW", I would be very interested in what that law is.

To me the " best " law or commandment are the two Jesus gave us:

And one of them, a doctor of the Law, putting him to the test, asked him, "Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?" Jesus said to him, "'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.' This is the greatest and the first commandment. And the second is like it, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)

Now if mankind could only follow those two " rules ". What a wonderful world it would be.

Aye, but here's the rub, in order to do #1 you have to believe in God. And if you believe in God, then you want to love yourself and others because this is your purpose TO LOVE THE BEST YOU CAN, AND GOD'S WILL, WILL BE DONE.

I now have purpose and reason for my existence.

If I truly don't believe in God, than, what is my purpose? Why am I here? What's it all about?
Doubts, uncertainties, confusion and fear, suffering with no perceived reason.

Just some of my thoughts as a theist.

Best to all,

Pat

[Graybeard]

Are you an atheist Greg?

I think I am a Nihilist ..... which is worse really, so that probably doesn't help much ... lol

Also Pat, i don't know if you realise, but your second commandment works all by itself, in fact its mine (Do as you would be done by ... difficult to keep at times .. lol) ... you don't really need the first ... remember Occam's razor ......

cool bananas Pat ... greg

[Profpat]

I think I am a Nihilist ..... which is worse really, so that probably doesn't help much ... lol

Also Pat, i don't know if you realise, but your second commandment works all by itself, in fact its mine (Do as you would be done by ... difficult to keep at times .. lol) ... you don't really need the first ... remember Occam's razor ......

Hi Greg;

I use to think that but it was Tina who confided that you probably couldn't do the second without a belief in God and doing the 1st first. After thinking about it I agree with her. I believe Tina is an agnostic. How else do you think it's possible to love all you A Holes, myself included, without believing in God. And I do!

Best,

Pat

[Graybeard]

I use to think that but it was Tina who confided that you probably couldn't do the second without a belief in God and doing the 1st first. After thinking about it I agree with her.

Whether it was Tina or not, its wrong .... look at me ... I do it all the time... rotflmao

Altho not everyone would agree I'm a loving bastard ... lol

cool bananas ... greg

[Profpat]

Whether it was Tina or not, its wrong .... look at me ... I do it all the time... rotflmao

Altho not everyone would agree I'm a loving bastard ... lol

cool bananas ... greg

LOL As long as you think you are, than, you are.

[arthur]

Hi Arthur;

Why would any intellectual knock God. Intellectual implies intelligent. Which God would they be knocking? Aristotle's " Prime Mover "? I'm a theist but I don't even try to define God, rather I accept God through faith. I am critical of all organized religion as being antichrist. But I don't believe Jesus is/was God, any more than you and I.

RP has a thread Science vs God. I recommended that he change the title to Science vs Religion. I believe that is where the biggest beef is at, a person's specific belief in Who or What God is.

That God allows " Evil " to happen is obvious, just as it should be obvious, that this is necessary to allow for " Free Will "

For an atheist like Austin to knock God is a paradox. How do you knock something which to you, doesn't exist. Again you may knock or criticize certain beliefs, people may have regarding God. But to knock God, when you profess not to believe in God, confuses me, because that person who would do that is confused.

Best,

Pat

Hello Pat
Sadly I have to accept that to many people, including in many dictionaries, being intellectual does (wrongly) equate to being intelligent. Yet intelligence does not relate to intellectuality. Therefore one can be highly intelligent but not intellectual but not highly intellectual and un-intelligent which is manifestly un-true. (I have presented a concise definition of intelligence elsewhere in toe quest)
Having read and hopefully understood my posts you will appreciate that the actual existence of God is not at all in question, but what is in question and what underlies my questioning is to do with the destructive parasitic role that the unthinking or malicious pompous and intellectually arrogant usually self-styled "academic" or "scientist" takes when joining the band wagon of undermining, and at the same time accepting the benefits and the freedom of, the key structure which holds my, your and their society together.
Pat it is not my intention on this admirable site or on any other site to interfere with people having fun but it is my intention to attempt to bring to the fore an awareness of the destructive results to humanity of the lack of morality, either through ignorance or design, of those doyens of knowledge and understanding about absolutely everything there is to be known about every thing who give or imply that their title of 'scientist', intellectual, academic, journalist, priest, economist or politician somehow give credence to what they profess whilst staying blind to the horrific results of their antics.
Perhaps Pat we should have, a long time ago, put down our fiddles and picked up a fire extinguisher.

arthur

[Graybeard]

Hi Arthur .... I think I understand your posts.

I'm not knocking, but asking ?

If, as I believe, Evolution supplies an account of the life on earth, and further, the complete story of the universe, it does it without mentioning a God, nor leaving any reason for imaging one.

I think your saying, think only, that this leads to a breakdown in morals, ethics.

In other words, the bird in the hand, tho starting to shows signs of molt, is still worth more than two in the bush.

If something is false, despite the fact that a majority may rely on it for social cohesion, does not mean that we should not pursue the truth, for fear of what that truth may imply, by our local standards.

Am I reading you correct ?

One day soon, we will have to 'knock' god, or at least present alternate theories that show the redundancy of a system that we owe a great deal to, but has now been superseded. The earth is starting to hurt, and ecological balance is the only medicine. This can only be fully understood by studying the underpinnings without preconceived bias.

greg

[Profpat]

I'm sorry Greg, well I'm really not, but all roads lead to God. There has to be an ultimate in every ones soul, for the Absolute Truth, Ultimate Love, Perfect Beauty. I think as we follow this road we recognize that everything in our world is lacking, we'll become aware of the concept of God. And than magically you'll discover that God is within you and loves you.

Or you won't.

Best,

Pat