Does it take an intellectual to knock God??

[austintorn@aol.com]

the author of this thread alluding to integrity while he continues to use childish name-calling when addressing the reader;

Personally, I note this to be against the TQ guidelines, even 30 times over now. Since it happens it public, I get to discuss it in public, as one of the many here that have been posting the same.

Some ToeQuestors might then think they could do the same, 30 times over, with but a minimum of problems and hardly any inconvience.


An example of a distinct characteristic, is to continue with the same behaviour, despite warnings to desist from same

Again, personally, I don't see we should be keeping this guy, as Robert's direction for TQ is plain that TQ is to be strictly professional; Also, once he told me that in the future certain [can't say the name]-types would disappear rather instantly from TQ due to this wish for TQ to be ever professional.

That's my vote, for however it counts.

[Profpat]

Hi Prof,

Sure, we can forgive, during and after we stop them by whatever means, like war, if necessary, or on the home front by putting them in prison.

Naturally, most who do bad things are not in their right mind in some way. We'll ignore them when they say "my brain or my upbringing made me do it."

Perhaps, when some, maybe just a few, see the folly and/or death of their fellows, they might suddenly "know what they are doing", having changed from input and learning.

Love has been around forever and anything that promotes it is good. It's just that the Church didn't love it neighbors and tried to wipe them out since the first commandment allowed it since, loosely interpreted, it indicated that no one should have other gods before them, or even close variations.

Another problem with the laws of the Church is that the Church thought there was divine knowledge behind everything that they did, laws or otherwise.

Hi Austin;

It seems the Old Testament is full of God's wrath. Thou shalt NOT!!

In the New Testament, Jesus's message is one of God's Love for us. A Loving Father Image.

It is the belief, ( FAITH ), in that image which saves me. An Image given from Jesus to me, via the Catholic Church.

Best,

Pat

[Profpat]

But Austin it's a thread that brings us together. Well most of us....

[austintorn@aol.com]

That's good, Prof, for Jesus was indeed a fine human, and really not at all related to the One they say was his wrathful Father—the worst non role model that was ever invented by humankind.

[leskey]

So, Leskey, why don't you (or any one else) take this opportunity to break the embarrassing chain reaction of emotional, illogical and silly, fruitless digs at me and be one of the first posters in this thread to objectively comment on my original proposition.? AND, why don't you become one of the only posters to display their intellectual integrity by sensibly answering such a question?

Hi, Arthur, your premise seems to based upon good vs evil.

Human societies have failed for one reason: our desires make us vulnerable. We are controlled by the self-interests of desire to survive (fear) and the desire for pleasure (happiness). Also, we fail to overcome the first in attaining the second.

Christianity (religion in general?) brought an understanding that certain failures bore dire consequences (evil), which was a timely reminder, before our population numbers exploded. In a rapidly shrinking world, no one is exempt from those consequences...hence, today, the increasing need to repress desire inspired by self-interest.

Despite all our progress, my opinion is that to date, in every respect, we have failed to learn how to overcome self-interest based upon fear and can no longer ignore the conseqences...

[austintorn@aol.com]

But Austin it's a thread that brings us together.

We are always together, at least those who love, whether whomever human role model influenced them to emulate. No one is stopping anyone from loving Jesus or anyone and taking to his words. We sure wouldn't imitate God, though, as a role model; we'd be imprisoned within no time.

I'm not sure why those of the same nationality of Jesus, who were even there at the time, rejected the divinity of Jesus and still do if it is such a sure thing. I don't even think that Jesus set out to create a new religion. Perhaps Paul did it after seeing bright lights.

Me, I have to reject divinity based on reason, since God has been disproved in umpteen different ways. Even theologists are now retreating to a kind of deity who didn't even have life in mind, much less humans. See 'Science vs. God' thread.


In this thread of Arthur's we are together as well, solidified in the opposition to constant insults over weeks and weeks. I see that you noticed. Many complained right in their posts, some contacted moderators, I reported posts, and some went directly to Robert. I never saw such an overwhelming consensus in the annals of TQ.

At any rate, I have shown that laws, morals, and values predated the time of Moses and more. The author of the thread has received 11 notices about on-topic input, but is apparently not interested in anything related to his proposition, another thing not good at all for ToeQuest.

[labelwench]

Every one on this thread, myself included, has demonstrated their dark side and lack of patience.

A great many posts cannot be related to the topic from even a generous understanding, and we have not even gotten to the bad news yet.

Arthur has stated several times that what he has to share is extremely unpleasant, possibly even sufficient to destroy all hope, and questions whether this forum is an appropriate vehicle.

From a "social club perspective", he's jerked us all around on a leash.

However, if there is even a remote chance that his Universal Law ia as profound as he indicates, perhaps we are being measured....and have come up short.

Just my perspective of the moment, having just arisen from a short sleep and off to burn the midnight oil.....no, wait...

It's midsummer, and I can see.....the light.....even at midnight....in the Yukon.....

Lorrina

[SB_UK]

If teachers see their students suffering with a concept
- then teachers help.

The importance of the Roman Catholic church, 10 commandments, law

{maybe, probably,yes}

but what if they've served their utility?
(As I am suggesting)
- and are ready to be put out to pasture.

~*~

Whether carrot or stick
- only necessary
whilst animal co-erced -> wherever.

where ever's
better
for the animal (in this case).

~*~

Heaven on Earth
- what use a roadmap to paradise
when there?

[SB_UK]

...but what if they've served their utility?
(As I am suggesting)

I believe that at some point in the past I wore nappies.

Now, no longer -
- great utility served.

I am attempting to suggest that the Roman Catholic Church is a (smelly) nappy.

bum

Aye -

no nappy no smell

.

'Everything's gonna' be al right'

[SB_UK]

In recent memory we have experienced the Jesuitical koan, riddle -
mystery
- valid questions without answers.

Now no longer.

Vedanta
-- The end of knowledge

The Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil)
-- scaled

~*~

I cannot find an idea which we cannot
(at worst)
hazard a half-decent educated guess in solution.

When the mystery's all but -
- koan goen.

It's now possible for us to see through (derive meaning from) all words
- all words -
- and identify whether there's meaning to be found.

Consider a paragraph of multiple propositions which're loosely tied together (a loose model) in an argument.
If the model of mind (which one holds) can tie these propositions together into a 'whole'
(a tighter model)
- then it's relatively easy for one's model (the tighter of the two) of mind to reject the other.

The problem (though) that we'll run into -
- is when emotion enters the discussion.

If either individual considers the other to be rude
- then we're prevented from the optimal outcome of the holder of the weaker (loose) model of reality
changing his mind.

The problem
- that the mind to child (to pre-evolved (pre-wisdom) state of mind) is synonymous (by the immature (unwise) mind) actually for that person.
Any 'attempt at correction' is far too easily translated within the mind of the person being corrected -
into aggression
(eliciting (accordingly) the belligerent {fight or flight,attack-defence} response).

~*~
Are we trying to educate or impose our views on one another?
~*~

The mechanism of delivery is all important here.

Education can only work when the educator makes sense -
- and then steps back and waits for the student to process any novel information into the structure of his own mind
itself.

Failure to make sense (as mentioned above) -
- may be the fault of the teacher or student.

The teacher who attempts to explain the boson to a 5 year old child using mathematical formulae
- is doomed to failure.

Development of mind is akin to building a tree of increasing abstraction -
more complex subjects can only be tackled when the mind of the individual is ready.

The consequence of mounting this informational structure
- is for it to 'recurse' to the start.
When the structure completes -
- we're afforded a view of reality from which vantage point we see that 'it's all the same' -
- a (-<)n
like the (green) tree (in our garden).

Simply a scaled series of bifurcations which fold back on one another after ~24 generations.

~link~
The branched structure which completes
- the structure is formed after 24 bifurcations -
generating a (new) whole -
*the lung*
(by emergent evolution)
- 'greater than the sum of the parts'
the product of 24 bifurcations leading to a novel structure -
a novel structure which can be studied from a higher perspective to the bifurcating airways -
instead from the higher level of the emergent property of the novel structure (the lung) itself
-> lung physiology <-

(pressureGases on {inspiration,expiration})

Failure to make sense (as mentioned above) -
- may be the fault of the teacher or student.

How do we tell the difference?
The teacher who can see his teaching is failing
- will himself try harder
and not blame his students.
Why?
Because the teacher needs to teach -
it's the proper basis to the teacher -
- the teacher (information gleaned) (if useful) is lost to society
- when teacher ... ... ...

... ... art in Heaven