Does it take an intellectual to knock God??

[arthur]

With reference to the original question in this thread:

I have just returned from, amongst other things, helping to document the slaughter, the rapes, the decapitations and the hacking off of limbs and other sickening events perpetrated on a group of benign 'struggling to survive' innocent villagers in Africa whose only desire was to be left in peace to live and worship according to their Christian values.

On the flight back our discussion turned to the question of why is it that whenever the word Christianity is used in, what the people who are involved in what 'they' consider as "intellectual" "scientific" debate, all that usually results is a display of complete ignorance as to the role of the "Christian Religion" in the development and the maintenance of civilisation and therefore in the development, directly or indirectly, of every component that makes up our civilisation.
This begs a question of the difference/s between the above perpetrators and the 'sophisticated' 'civilised' intellectual bigots who spend an inordinate amount of energy and time attempting to undermine the credibility of the phenomenon (Christianity) which is not only responsible for their own existence but, for the existence of the sophisticated and civilised society which allows them the freedom to practice and advertise their bigotry.

(For those who are tempted, whether they be bigots or not, I ask that you do not use or continue to use my posts as a catalyst to engender in your selves contrived emotional states of fake indignation to alleviate some personal frustration, or, for just a bit of "fun", And I ask that those who have the power to interfere with my posts for their own aggrandisement to display some integrity and display the common courtesy of not doing so) even if there are misspellings or ambiguous punctuation.

We all agreed that one way to curtail the destructive pomposity and arrogance displayed by the sophisticated "intellectual" anti Christian society destroying bigots is to physically introduce them to the smell and to the flies and to the sight of a few of the guilty decapitated babies or their machete hacked to death guilty mothers. Of course, to ship some of these people to Africa just to show them such a result of intellectually inspired anti Christian bigotry would be impractical and to try to give them an insight into the importance of "Christianity" by the use of words would be met with the usual derisive bias and disrespectful heckling. (what sadly many sad and emotionally insecure people find as "fun")

The main problem in trying with reason and logic to show people who only give lip service to ideas such as 'treating others as you would wish to be treated' is that their defence of their hypocrisy will prevent them from viewing anything outside of their egocentricity with empathy, of course this could only apply 'if' they have the intellect to understand the words.
In the coming months 'all' of these people (and regrettably most other people) will experience varying degrees of emotional stress due to the breakdown of the fundamental forces that have created and maintains the 'stability' of their society. It may result in something as simple as loosing ones source of income and the subsequent stressful ramifications as one uses the vast amount of knowledge and understanding about every thing on earth that one had displayed in forums such as this in earlier times to alleviate the stress. (if your so smart how come you ain't rich) If some of that vast amount of knowledge had been manifested by using or supporting disparaging anti Christian rhetoric so much the better, for it will present the opportunity to intellectually appraise the value to your society and to your self of the artificial values that you have 'absorbed' and become dependent upon and which came from the 'Christianity' that allowed this civilization, that you spent so much time being scornful of, to evolve.

When you have a raging tooth or ear ach or when some one important to you is ill and you cant find any one to care, When you are hungry and have no money and there are no Christian do-gooders to run soup kitchens for you, When you house is burgled of burned down and you have no where to go and there are no Christian do-gooders who with out being paid will help.
In the months to come irrespective of where you live most of you will encounter the resulting activity of more and more individuals like you self who have spent most of their lives to date being wafted hither and thither by, more often than not, irrational, illogical emotional decisions needed to maintain an ego which evolved ostensibly from self gratification brought about by the 'natural' attributes of greed and selfishness, with little or no altruistic concern for anyone outside of your immediate family.

A parasite whose expectations of support from the world at large overwhelmingly outweighs any contribution they have made.
Someone who likes to feel and who professes that they have values and respect for others and whose life is not tempered at all be the fact that their comparative civilised sophisticated sumptuous lifestyle is supported by their acquiescence to the causes of, as well as to the actual, poverty, the wars, the hell and horror that most of the people in the world are suffering. Respect for others?? Which others?? ---And is also--- not tempered by the altruistic activity carried out by the thousands of Christian do-gooders who actually get their hand dirty with the puke and the excrement of the ill, the poor, and the unfortunate in spite of the bias and the bigoted barrage towards them by people who would like to be seen as intellectual but who, if they were in fact intellectual and their intellectuality was not tainted by their bigotry, would recognise the role of these people and 'if' they had integrity would question 'Why' they gratuitously feel a need to destroy, discredit and undermine the faith and the direction, which they do not understand, that gives so many caring, loving and honest people an understanding of what life is all about.

So---the answer to the original question is still 'obviously not'

arthur…

[austintorn@aol.com]

Again, Arthur, the reaction to your thread continues to be 'Who Cares' about your topic, since you demeaned and insulted so many people over the months, that aspect taking over completely in the thread and toppling your topic. Nor were you able to reply to anything on topic, so adieu to you; you can't deny it, so don't even try.

[Mikal]

Hi Arthur….nice to see you back but very sad that your journey took you into the very heart of human atrocities. I fully understand that it is one thing for me to read the starkness of your words and it was another thing for you to have taken this journey and agreed to courageously stay with some of the most absolute gravest actions that man is capable of committing against his fellow man. I completely agree that the courage to stay with this expression of humanity takes character, perseverance and profound empathy. I would see this as you have been perched between the absolutely intolerable and the despicable and could only stay there in that position through sheer integrity, so for that and your wish to film that and want to bring it to the consciousness of collective society I surely do commend you for the purpose which must drive you.

Historically I understand your testimony here because it is well recorded in our ongoing history that as we, as a civilization pass through a change from one age to another age, from one epoch to another epoch, from one spirit of the times to another spirit of the times or from one world view to another worldview….all our civilization’s corruption is brought before us and that could only be because not just some of us are culture bearers but all of us are culture bearers with the full capacity and potential to change our world and culture to the good, to be just and to be ethically and morally supportive for all people.

In the days and times ahead of us our work will be cut out for us. It will be tough, it will be different and will demand from us an unselfish attachment to life and a greater enlarging of love and giving that goes beyond immediate family, and takes in all of us, as a brotherhood of humanity. Many are not aware that we are entering the times that hold the potential to cut us to our knees until we are humbled enough to wear a garment of integrity upon our character and an all encompassing self-critical eye in resonance with who we are as a collective and what we have become…..for in all of that fabric rises the structural truth of our world.

Thank you for sharing your journey and bless you for extending yourself to those in their hour of greatest need and as I could not be there, I will simply pray….


Regards Mikal

[Meem]

Arthur,

I don't know you very well, and I see that some of the others kind of forget the most important lesson of "night vision," if you wait for the storm to pass, the skies clear and the stars shine. Don't give up your search for hope no matter how dark and stormy the night may appear. Sometimes, a friend will push you away when you need to be pushed ... perhaps in order to fly. And sometimes when you have been flying too much, they will be the pull that grounds you. Don't fear the worst, hope for the best no matter how small of a shred it might seem to be ... even if some say it's nothing to hope for ... it just may be everything you find.

Nothing is what it seems.

[sillysally]

I have a question, do mentally retarded people believe in god? If not then I say yes to answer the question.

[Meem]

People who are beyond a fear of god choose to believe, and it goes far beyond mental capacities. What are you afraid of?

[sillysally]

Are you asking me Meem? If so I don't understand.

Anyway my point to asking the question is that most religions believe that mentally retarded people have a direct pass to heaven. Non believers don't have to argue or worry about a thing since most people that do believe consider people that don't as stupid. According to some religion, all atheist go to heaven and mentally retarded people are Atheist. So why do believers try to convince the non-believers when the Atheist are right in not believing?

[Meem]

That seems to be a fair question, but I would answer it like this. Would try to tell anyone who was amoral why they should be moral and not amoral? There's a huge difference.
I don't suffer a fear of atheists. I do however find myself uneasy with the way they treat their fellow man for what they believe, and I somehow doubt referring to them as mentally retarded is going to help the situation, about as much as preaching hellfire and damnation will if they don't believe. Men/man/ people are going to do what they do regardless if they believe in god or not, we are only "human." How it all works, and why things are they way they are ... is enough to drive anyone batty.

And if it were safe to say that there was some sort of mental difficulty in the process, would you not try to help at all? Would you expect mentally unable children to do things on their own with no assistance? And if I were going to go along with this concept a bit further, people who blindly believe are about in the same condition. It reminds me of a story here in Texas where two orderlies at a care facility had mental disabled residents fighting each other so they could record it. Who's who in this situation?

Get them fighting and let them fight? It reminds me of these two quotes. Quite strange when paired together.

"Kill them all and let God sort them out." ?
"The devil is in the details." ?

[sillysally]

That seems to be a fair question, but I would answer it like this. Would try to tell anyone who was amoral why they should be moral and not amoral? There's a huge difference.
I don't suffer a fear of atheists. I do however find myself uneasy with the way they treat their fellow man for what they believe, and I somehow doubt referring to them as mentally retarded is going to help the situation, about as much as preaching hellfire and damnation will if they don't believe. Men/man/ people are going to do what they do regardless if they believe in god or not, we are only "human." How it all works, and why things are they way they are ... is enough to drive anyone batty.

And if it were safe to say that there was some sort of mental difficulty in the process, would you not try to help at all? Would you expect mentally unable children to do things on their own with no assistance? And if I were going to go along with this concept a bit further, people who blindly believe are about in the same condition. It reminds me of a story here in Texas where two orderlies at a care facility had mental disabled residents fighting each other so they could record it. Who's who in this situation?

Get them fighting and let them fight? It reminds me of these two quotes. Quite strange when paired together.

"Kill them all and let God sort them out." ?
"The devil is in the details." ?

I still don't get it. Let me try to say it easier.

There are 2 kinds of people, believers and non believers. Mentally retarded people fall in with the non believers. Can a mentally retarded person explain why there is no god? No, because of a disability, same goes for a lot of other people. We all have disabilities to a degree, nobody is perfect.

It's not my fault that religions made up a rule that mentally disabled people go straight to heaven even if the disabled people don't believe it. I don't believe in god or heaven so I must have some sort of disability according to believers otherwise they wouldn't try to argue it or convince me otherwise. They don't believe that I can think for myself and I must need their assistance.

Get it? People that don't believe need'nt say a thing. The believers need to get their story straight. If they can convince a mentally retarded person that there is a god and heaven then they will have a valid argument to convince me and all other Atheists in the world.

[Meem]

I can't prove how god is let alone how I am, I just know I am and whatever god is, god is. Did my parents "make" me ... I don't remember it, do you? What is life, a miracle. I do get amazed how some people don't see that, I suppose it's easy to do if you focus on the negative, you've got to accentuate the positive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi8o3OWiDIE&feature=related

You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between

You've got to spread joy up to the maximum
Bring gloom down to the minimum
Have faith or pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

(To illustrate his last remark
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they do
Just when everything looked so dark)

Man, they said we better
Accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between
No, do not mess with Mister In-Between
Do you hear me, hmm?

(Oh, listen to me children and-a you will hear
About the elininatin' of the negative
And the accent on the positive)
And gather 'round me children if you're willin'
And sit tight while I start reviewin'
The attitude of doin' right

(You've gotta accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between)

You've got to spread joy (up to the maximum)
Bring gloom (down) down to the minimum
Otherwise (otherwise) pandemonium
Liable to walk upon the scene

To illustrate (well illustrate) my last remark (you got the floor)
Jonah in the whale, Noah in the ark
What did they say (what did they say)
Say when everything looked so dark

Man, they said we better
Accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between
No! Don't mess with Mister In-Between