Truth is Timeless

[melanie]

Love comes later, after simplicity begets the complexity that is us.

Life is not complex, we are complex - life is simple and the simple thing is the right thing - Oscar Wilde

[jag]

Why not? Of course you can.
The veil is an illusion.
Duality is an illusion.
You already are the timeless truth here now as eternal life.


''Allow the source of being to maintain contact with you
ignore the impressions and opinions of your customary self.
If this self were of value in your life search,
it would have found realization for you.
but all it can do is to depend upon others.''

_____________



The dream is real Jag.

But you are the dreamed character of the one dreamer.
The dreamer and it's dreams are One- when the dreamer wakes-up in the dream as and through the characters or (appearances)
THAT is known as being lucid in it's own dream.
'we' are relative consciousness co-creating re-creating even more dreams within the same one self absolute awareness.
Like dreams within dreams, worlds within worlds.
It's all one interconnected phenomena.

Duality is the sense and perception of one's universe as other than oneself, the seperative "you and I" concept.
It defines the world that we realize.
Duality is an illusion of the senses, an illusion perceived by units of human and animal consciousness levels.

The absolute state knows only oneness.
It is that which transcends the state of duality to be aware solely of the oneness of the universe, or "the Void"
and of the emptiness of form of any inherent, independent existence.


You don't have to wait until you die to die.
You can die here and now, to the illusory separate self,
and be the timeless absolute presence that you have always been.
This is it right now-There is no other presence.
You have always been here right now, you have not arrived or departed from this, it only appears that way.
For example, you were not aware of your birth, nor will you be aware of the moment of your death.
You only know of birth and death - as concepts and ideas.
These ideas have no independent existence.


_______________

The Absolute

No mind, no form, I only exist;
Now ceased all will and thought;
The final end of Nature's dance,
I am it whom I have sought.

A realm of Bliss bare, ultimate;
Beyond both knower and known;
A rest immense I enjoy at last;
I face the One alone.

I have crossed the secret ways of life,
I have become the Goal.
The Truth immutable is revealed;
I am the way, the God Soul.

My spirit aware of all the heights,
I am mute in the core of the Sun.
I barter nothing with time and deeds;
My cosmic play is done.


~ Sri Chinmoy ~

I see the truth in this concept but I am confussed. If I , the dreamed, am able to become the dreamer, is that the death of my dreamed self? or can I move back and forth while I'm still in this body. It seems I must If I am to function in this dream world. Maybe waking up to the dreamer and our duel nature is only the beginning of becoming one with the universe and the journey will persist as long as the dreamer feeds our dreams and we can be in harmony.

Is the dreamer God?

jag

[MJA]

Truth is equality.

=
MJA

[melanie]

I see the truth in this concept but I am confussed. If I , the dreamed, am able to become the dreamer, is that the death of my dreamed self? or can I move back and forth while I'm still in this body. It seems I must If I am to function in this dream world. Maybe waking up to the dreamer and our duel nature is only the beginning of becoming one with the universe and the journey will persist as long as the dreamer feeds our dreams and we can be in harmony.

Is the dreamer God?

jag

Hi Jag...you shared some very good thoughts.

This cannot be grasped by the mind, because the mind automatically blocks the direct seeing/intuition of what it is we are trying to understand.

Now, this is not very popular with the phantom ego-self, but the truth is the 'you' that 'you' think 'you' are does not exist.
'You' are just an idea arising in one infinite consciousness.

I'll try and answer your post the best i can, and i hope you can see something in it without too much confusion.

Here goes....


God is not the dreamer.

God IS the dream, the creation, this reality NOW the consciousness-
consciousness appearing as the many manifestations Including the human.

The dreamer is beyond the creation.
And cannot be known or experienced.
For IT is the very experiencing as and through IT's creation as sensations sensed.
Sounds paradoxical, but we are talking about oneness here not twoness.
Contradicting because this phenomena cannot see itself, except in it's reflection, creation is the reflection of the creator /dreamer.
And just as your own reflection in the mirror is not separate from the 'you' looking in the mirror.
No-thing on earth is separate from anything else.
It's all 'one thing'



The dreamer is the Absolute All knowing Ominpotent Omniscience Omnipresence Creator which is Awareness HereNOW
ONE with the knowing.

This doesn't mean that we are all knowing, we only know what we need to know in the instant it is demanded.
Then the unknown becomes known one with the knowing.

The creation is the manifest KNOWN of the unknown un-manifested.
Awareness is the unknown.
KNOWledge is latent within awareness until it arises and becomes known on demand via the senses.

As i said before....Creation is being born brand new in every instant.
Matter is the residue of THOUGHT

That which is known ie: the creation itself cannot KNOW for it's already the known.
Who this knowing is -is unknowable.
Yet clearly known.

The dreamed characters are the objects of IT's desire, they are the dreams.

These dreams are not separate from the dreamer, just as your own nightly dreams are not separate from your own consciousness.

There is only conscious awareness.

No-thing else exist apart from consciousness - there is only consciousness or oneness or beingness.

Objects,people or things are not separate from the consciousness that is observing them.
There is not even a razors edge between subject and object.

The human entity is tricked into thinking that it is this separate body,with a separate life,
but if you take the body out of the equation, all that remain is the conscious awareness of the body.
Objects are the finite many dreams/manifestations of the one infinite consciousness.

THAT is who you are- You are the ONE infinite Awareness, experiencing finite consciousness, as and through the character Jag.

The body is a transient appearance/dream body of awareness.
All reality is made up of ideas/names/labels beliefs and concepts.
But it is none of these, yet arises AS all these.
These are already KNOWN in consciousness, they do not exist as separate things.

Without OBJECTS awareness is completely VOID of anything.
Without VOID there can be no objects or somethings.
Both are two sides of the same coin.

It is the ultimate truth behind reality, but like i said, not popular with 99% of the ego's in the world.

[austintorn@aol.com]

The dreamer is the Absolute All knowing Ominpotent Omniscience Omnipresence Creator which is Awareness HereNOW
ONE with the knowing.

How did the Creator get to be?

[Mikal]

I see the truth in this concept but I am confussed. If I , the dreamed, am able to become the dreamer, is that the death of my dreamed self? or can I move back and forth while I'm still in this body. It seems I must If I am to function in this dream world. Maybe waking up to the dreamer and our duel nature is only the beginning of becoming one with the universe and the journey will persist as long as the dreamer feeds our dreams and we can be in harmony.

Is the dreamer God?

jag

Hi Jag...it may be less confusing if you think along the lines that from the center out,,,we are at the center, consciousness, (pneuma/nous) then there is the soul/psyche (inner self) and then there is the physical body. (physis)

From the center out there are states of awareness....at the center deep sleep (consiousness) then dreaming (consciousness/psyche) and then waking (consciousness/psyche/body.)

The body and psyche come and go. We are not a physical body sometimes conscious. We are consciousness that is sometimes conscious of a body.

Becoming one with the universe is experienced with the attainment of full sentience and you acquire body consciousness.

When senses become "a sense" and emotions become "an emotion" one experiences their Spirit and their Soul.

Reality is real, you are not just a dream! If you drop a big piece of steel on your foot are you going to know you did that?
Trust me, you will not dream that away!!


Mikal

[jag]

The dreamer is the Absolute All knowing Ominpotent Omniscience Omnipresence Creator which is Awareness HereNOW
ONE with the knowing.

How did the Creator get to be?

I think what I am hearing is that our creator, the dreamer, was created or dreamed by something that is beyond our ability to comprehend at this point in our evolution. It's like trying to comprehend what is beyond the edges of our known universe. Best not to worry about it. We should stay closer to home until we grow up a little bit.

jag

[austintorn@aol.com]

1. If one cannot know, then it is of no concern whatsoever.

2. If one can know, such as that a causeless bottom cannot have a design from cause, then it is fun to work it out, even though it is still of no concern at all due to (1).

3. The work out…

The Clash of Magisteria

When its findings differ, science clashes with other ideas that are merely pronounced and not observed, especially if they come out opposite.

Causes cannot lie beneath causes ad infinitum, so there must be a causeless bottom level of ‘something’ having no design or order, for it could not have been created.

Moreover, a total Nothing could not produce anything, therefore this ‘something’ is the normal state of natural affairs. Again, no creation necessary.

These are not just idle thought experiments since the ‘something’ of the quantum level has been shown to have no order and no local hidden variables.

While the separate magisteria may be indeed converging at the point of the causeless bottom, here they greatly diverge, for a complete disorder is seen rather than a perfect order.

[melanie]

How did the Creator get to be?

Through the will and intent of desire - (subconscious)

The conscious unconscious subconscious are all different aspects of the same state.

Creation is a word/concept.

All there is is consciousness...uncaused.

This is it, we know that is proved by our very being herenow.

[melanie]

I think what I am hearing is that our creator, the dreamer, was created or dreamed by something that is beyond our ability to comprehend at this point in our evolution. It's like trying to comprehend what is beyond the edges of our known universe. Best not to worry about it. We should stay closer to home until we grow up a little bit.

jag

It seems we struggle to get past that horizon - when in reality there isn't one.
THIS is ALREADY Oneness.
No matter what THIS IS, what it's translated AS
THIS is Oneness.
The translations appear IN this Oneness.
So the translations can never quantify Oneness - doing so IS Duality.
But the translation or Duality NEVER separates Oneness.

You aren't LACKING Oneness.
Every experience, no matter what it is, IS Oneness already.

Simply SEE that the translation never separates what IS.
And the "you" you've taken yourself to be, is nothing more than a translation.

Oneness is already found, already present, already THIS.
Any experience is Oneness already.
The translations ARE Oneness.
The seeking and finding and confusion and clarity and "not getting it" and "getting it"
- it simply does not matter WHAT appears - these are only AS SUCH - IN TRANSLATION of mind.

Translation can never modify, correct, alter, or in any way, separate this immediacy, this present Nonduality.

WE CANNOT KNOW ANYMORE THAN THAT.

To try would drive your mind insane, it is beyond the mind's comprehension.

Some of the worlds greatest thinkers, thought their way inside a mental institution, trying to figure this all out.

That's all the mind can do, go round in circles, ...strangely