Truth is Timeless

[AntonioLao]

By its definition a square circle cannot exist.

[cosvis]

Hi Jag,

I like your thread "Truth is Timeless". Would you then also say that: Truth is eternal? Or must one rather say that some truth are eternal and some are finite. It seems to me if one says: one and one makes two; that seems to be eternal, but if say: I am happy; that is certainely not eternal because often times I am not so happy but feel lousy. Thus, it seems to me, one has to be specific what kind of truth is the object of our thoughts. There exist eternal truth, but also finite truth.

Yours cosvis.

[austintorn@aol.com]

Welcome back, Covis. We hoped that you were still with us.

[melanie]

The more truth you know the more thruth you are.

Truth is always exempt from our transient and ever changing world.
But never dead, always vibrant and radiantly alive. But when truth becomes linked with fact, then both time and space condition it's meanings and correlate it's values.

Such realities of truth wedded to fact become concepts and merely relative cosmic realities.

What happens to truth if our facts become clouded?

jag

You are the One who speaks the words (I) utter.
And (I) am the One who utters the words you speak.
This happens simultaneously despite the appearance of a delay.
Neither lips nor tongue did ever speak... one voice only speaking in the hearing...

Truth recognizes Truth as same .. Self-same.
Ego see truth as other as an afront to it self.
Truth cannot be insulted...only ego can be insulted.
That is the truth... Self to Self is selfless.

More about truth comes from an understanding that concepts are merely pointers that point to what is.
But concepts/words/ideas/thoughts are not reality.
The word (water) will not quench your thirst.
Quite meaningless in itself, only meaningful when meaning is attached in the instant of knowing, one with the knowing.

The arrow of time can point to 'what' ..IS..
''appearing externally'' ...(projection)
But it can never point to .. IT-Self
And it doesn't need to.....IT is 'Self evident' in the SEE-in

The SEEING-out ... IS .. The SEEING-in (Seeing)
It is both the seen and the unseen arising mutually together.
It is Consciousness that sees, ..and no eye ever saw.
No 'things' have ever been seen, nor can any 'things' ever be seen 'as it is in itself'
All 'things' exist only as it is .. existing as they are 'Imagined/Known' in the only Imagination/Knowing there is.

This pure unconditioned immediate 'Seeing' .. is all there is...
Manifesting/vibrating IT-Self into being all at once right NOW.

The separate (i) thought is a movement on the pristine mirror...a reflection/ a ripple/ a wave...of itself. Already known in awareness.
It is a movement/wave arising out of the the whole ocean of consciousness.
Self aware-in Self......


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The Limits of Language

Within the concept of non-duality,
one may find diametrically opposed statements,
concepts, and metaphors.

For instance:

- You are IT/ You don’t exist;

- The ultimate understanding/There is nothing to understand;

- Enlightenment/There is no enlightenment;

- Everything is IT/Everything is just an illusion;

- There is only the Self (Advaita)/There is no Self(Buddhism).

This shows that it is basically impossible to say something
about Self-realization without running into seeming contradictions.
Whatever we say about it is as true or untrue as its opposite.

We can try to negate the problem of capturing the non-dual and non-linear in dualistic and linear word strings
by using metaphors and parables and by pointing out that they are merely concepts;

But we will still not succeed in kissing our own lips

From the book ..... Awakening to the dream.

[cosvis]

A square circle is impossible and thus it is not true. Truth to me, is only what is; what is possible. It seems to me that there are also various kinds of truth; there are eternal truths and finite or temporary truths.

Yours Cosvis.

[Profpat]

A circle squared. C2

[AntonioLao]

A circle squared. C2

Didnt see this earlier, sorry. In math anything can exist as symbols without defined properties. However, geometric pattern with both defined properties of square and circle cannot exist. Therefore, as a mathematical set a square circle is equivalent to an empty set. That is the set has no member that satisfies the definition.

[Profpat]

Hi Antonio;

Can't a circle morph into a square or a sphere into a cube?

Rubber Sheet Geometry


Best,

Pat

[jag]

Hi Jag,

Would you then also say that: Truth is eternal?
Yours cosvis.

Hi cosvis,

Yep. That's what i'm sayin'. Truth is timeless. Eternal and unchanging. The fact that you are happy some of the time and the rest of the time you are something else is only a reflection of the truth. The closest things to the truth in our understanding are experientially proven facts, unchanging facts. That is pretty close but it is still only a part of the truth.

jag

[AntonioLao]

Can't a circle morph into a square or a sphere into a cube?

Yes. Advanced math of topology allows a circle to morph into a square or a sphere into a cube as long as their genus is the same http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Genus.html