I believe that “God” does “, “, “, “, “ and none of this sentence.

[labelwench]

Your signature was my chosen approach to the topic.

Your proposal to leave your signature out of the discussion is accepted.

The discussion shall be left to others.

[melanie]

On to my hypothesis:
I believe that God exists, doesn’t exist, is both at the same time, is neither of them, is all of the previous and none of this sentence.

Are you not aware of being right now?
You are aware of these words.
Is not this very Awareness all inclusive to you?
Have you ever been outside it?


This Awareness really is alone and all to you, is it not?

The Awareness that reads this forum is infinite.
It is alone.
It is all.
It is the Awareness of Existence.
It is God's knowledge of Himself.
It is God's knowledge of being God.
It does not belong to 'another',
It is not contained nor possessed by 'another.'
It is not beholden to 'another' called by any other name.

This Awareness, this very Awareness, that is aware right here, right now, is God's Awareness of being all that God is......

neti neti welcome to the dreamworld nothing else to say.

to speak of it is lies - be-liefs
http://www.miraclesart.com/IToldYouSoframedsmall.jpg


"God, my god what a word.

Amazingly, god is not the only word for god,
actually, amazing could be a word for god,
and the only word could be a good phrase for god.
But this is my god, so keep your words off it.
I don't even need a word for my god, unless
i wish to describe my god to you.
If you want to compare gods or compare worlds
or compare any idea, then words are a good way to
go about that godless task.
But i think, What if god is beyond compare?
What if god is beyond words even. If god
is beyond words, then god is beyond ideas, thoughts even.
But thoughts are there, even thoughts of god,
so god must be the thoughts themselves.
Yet god certainly is beyond words, ideas and thoughts,
god, manifested or communicated
by words comes in so many other forms, so many other
words. God certainly exists as words, and as thoughts and
as ideas, but is none of those things.
In a very real way, god is unknown. There is much that is unknown,
and as our knowledge increases, so do the unknowns.
Is god the increasing knowledge or the increasing unknown?
My god is probably the increasing unknown type,
but for others it is the increasingly known type.
We might then say god is both, but both what?
Known and unknown? these are nothing more than
two words, two ideas, and as we've said, god is not
words or ideas. We make god a word or an idea
when we use a word to refer to god, or maybe it's a symbol,
same thing because a symbol requires words to define it's meaning.
God is not a word, but there are many words for god.
God is not an idea, but there are many ideas about God.
God is not a thought, but there are countless thoughts of god.
Words thoughts or ideas can be finite, so god is not finite.
Words thoughts or ideas can be infinite, so god is not infinite.
God could be anything, so god must be everything.
Everything must include nothing, or the space around things,
so god must be nothing. God can not be the word thought or idea
of either everything or nothing, so god is neither, though we just
said god was.
God can~not be a word.
God can~not be an idea.
God can~not be a thought.
I can say the same thing of my self,
so who am i?
God, i just don't know. "



“The symbols (the Signs) serve the purpose of expressing the ideas behind them, the wise words of explaining the Signs. When symbols are comprehended, words can be forgotten, and when ideas are comprehended, symbols can be forgotten. However, if hanging onto words, symbols will never be comprehended, and if hanging onto symbols, ideas will never be comprehended.”




_________________________________

The ultimate comprehension is intuitive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuition

"without effort"

.. that stuff that comes out like an arrow
__________________________________


It is not permanent, since it does not exist at all.
It is not nothingness, since it is vividly clear and awake.
It is not oneness, since many things are cognised and known.
It is not plurality, since the many things known are inseparable in one taste.



There is nothing outside of THIS immediate Awareness.
All THAT there is -is THIS immediate all knowing one with the knowing infinite AWARENESS....For NOONE
While words 'pretending' to be explanations drift by in -and as an expression of- this Vast-Intimate-Mystery,
it may be clear that thoughts/concepts cannot grasp their own source and that intellectualizing is not going to get us to where (and what) we already are.
INFINITE AWARENESS

[futrethink]

---Labelwench.

Your signature was my chosen approach to the topic.

---Ah.?. So instead of directly mention something in your post about God and its possible states, you decided to go after the whole underlying basis right of the bat?
---We can continue the main theory, if you wish, but hopefully in another way.

[futrethink]

---melanie.

Are you not aware of being right now?
You are aware of these words.

---Yes.

Is not this very Awareness all inclusive to you?

---Yes and no.

Have you ever been outside it?

---No.

The Awareness that reads this forum is infinite.

---No, it isn’t.

It is not contained nor possessed by 'another.'

---It is not contained by ‘another’, but it is contained by nonexistence.
---And in the ‘end’ it stops existing for all time and space, so that it has had a past existence.
---IT is dead, Melanie and has been dead for all time and space. IT is dead just as much as IT is alive, because IT exists upon ITs own corpse.

[labelwench]

The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of all true art and science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery - even if mixed with fear - that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity; in this sense, and, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man.


Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

Greetings, Futrethink,

The above words by Einstein come close to expressing my position on this topic.

Therefore I have nothing that requires debate.

The world, on the other hand, is in need of attention....IMHO.

Regards,

Labelwench

[melanie]

Mel.

The Awareness that reads this forum is infinite.

FT---No, it isn’t.

How come?

I see consciousness is finite, but awareness can't be finite can it?

Similarly, the electricity that supplies a whole world with a power source for let's say every light bulb in existence.
That power source doesn't switch it's self off when one individual bulb is switched off.
Bulbs can be switched off, doesn't mean the power that supplies it goes off too.

So how come? The awareness reading this forum is not infinite?

FT---IT is dead, Melanie and has been dead for all time and space. IT is dead just as much as IT is alive, because IT exists upon ITs own corpse.

What do you mean by IT ? Do you mean awareness?


What is this IT that is dead & alive both, and living off it's own corpse?

Are you implying this IT is a phantom and that this is a phantom existence.. ?

[futrethink]

---labelwench.

---Mr. Einstein is truly correct in that when you have nothing more to wonder at you become dead or lost in your own mind, crazy and then dead.
---So take that thought and go further with it, because when any individual chooses how they are to ‘live’ their life, it is with one of three concepts, which are; 1) to accept what is/what will be, keep going as you are and live it. In essence, going through your life, somewhat, seemingly or exactly in a rut. To put the Zen into it; to be the rock that allows the river to wash over it and have control over the rock’s life.
******2) go crazy and become relatively or exactly opposite of what you used to be, in the way you have lived your life. In essence, oppositely change what you normally do to a degree/go crazy by having a midlife crisis, go from good to evil or from giving to selfish. To go from the rock that allows the water to flow and become a boulder that causes the river to change its life/path.
******3) don’t live your life anymore and kill yourself, with the hopes that you won’t have to be in that rut or go crazy anymore and that something good will come out of your death.

------There is a fourth concept involving being neither/both the boulder nor the rock, but is impossible to do within a length of time/span of space.

---Is there any individual of energy, animal, vegetable or mineral, you can think of, capable of not choosing the three?

The world, on the other hand, is in need of attention....IMHO.

---I agree, which is why I consider this thread not one of my more serious discussions and I try to show people, in my other discussions about prejudice/bigotry, suicidal/murderous/irresponsible street racers, young offenders/parental responsibility, overpopulation/people caring about their offspring’s societal future and etc, why they should not lie to themselves, most of the time (belief/hope and etc are necessary lies to live life), because of the other people that the lies might hurt.
---Since religions involve people needing to be told things and accepting those ‘truths’ as truths, based upon belief (a lie about possible facts), I know that changing their minds about lying to themselves probably won’t happen. So I started this thread and another, on another site, to see how upset they will be about what they don’t know or will honestly admit about themselves and their ‘god.’

[futrethink]

---melanie.

I see consciousness is finite, but awareness can't be finite can it?

---Only as long as the awareness is aware or what the awareness is aware of, because if the awareness is dead or it can’t think of anything outside of what it knows, are not those limits? Infinite is having NO limits, in ANY way, shape or form.

What do you mean by IT ? Do you mean awareness?
What is this IT that is dead & alive both, and living off it's own corpse?

---Most people would use the word ‘god’ instead of referring to it as ‘IT’ or ‘Singularity’, which is what I prefer to use to describe what I perceive. I don’t call it ‘god’, because that has connotations/implications of being majorly ‘good’ and IT isn’t.

Are you implying this IT is a phantom and that this is a phantom existence.. ?

--- Are you not aware of being right now? You are aware of these words. Aren’t you?
---To one phantom, another phantom is a real as they are, right? But to you and me, a phantom seems to have no reality/existence, so how real can it be, right? Whish is the reality or are there two perceptions of reality, in its infinitely finite (or is it finitely infinite) capacity?

[melanie]

---melanie.
---Only as long as the awareness is aware or what the awareness is aware of, because if the awareness is dead or it can’t think of anything outside of what it knows, are not those limits? Infinite is having NO limits, in ANY way, shape or form.

This reply answers both your quotes in one.

''Pure Awareness'' is infinite unlimited.
IT is unborn and without form.
When the body cease to exist, awareness is then without mind....Awareness without ''mind'' is still awareness.
We know that simply because awareness is present in deep dreamless sleep where mind is not.
Concepts come only from the mind ..reality is conceptual.
The "intelligence energy" or awareness being the source of the mind, what is awareness by itself ? Stripped of the mind ?
No-thing.


The mind is an Illusory /Phantom that arises as the individual psychological centre, the ''I-Thought'' via 'senses' not separate from the awareness aware-in the senses.
When we are "thoughtless" we are awareness without concepts.
Awareness is all encompassing the mind with its concepts and the appearances within it.
Awareness without any concepts is No-Thing.
All discussions are concepts based, All concepts make us believe in the reality of the movie of appearances.

Although we cannot define, describe awareness without concepts by the use of words or the mind.
Being in the No-Thing is then "pure awareness" ... The I AM unborn without form eternal presence Beingness.


Awareness without mind/appearances is still ONE ...
why not look at appearances as being reality, the individuality, the I-Thought, ... as being awareness instead of an appearances.
Awareness is the unknown knowing known one with the knowing.... a mysterious illusory phantom.

If the unknown can be called 'All is One' or simply One
IT can also be called Awareness.

If That what knows ItSelf as illusion may be called 'an illusion that knows it is an illusion' then the more commonly used label can be 'Awareness' too.

If all is illusion ..or not true .. then the statement that all is illusion is itself not true, which makes such a statement meaningless..
it all ads up to zero... to not knowing...mystery...

It cannot be claimed or qualified.
not as a state, as a lie,as a truth, as a dream, as Oneness,as an illusion.

Thinking that you can qualify IT is itself illusion.
Equals nothingness and everythingness arising simultaneously to every-one and no-one.

---Most people would use the word ‘god’ instead of referring to it as ‘IT’ or ‘Singularity’, which is what I prefer to use to describe what I perceive. I don’t call it ‘god’, because that has connotations/implications of being majorly ‘good’ and IT isn’t.
--- Are you not aware of being right now? You are aware of these words. Aren’t you?
---To one phantom, another phantom is a real as they are, right? But to you and me, a phantom seems to have no reality/existence, so how real can it be, right? Whish is the reality or are there two perceptions of reality, in its infinitely finite (or is it finitely infinite) capacity?

[Unreal Zelta]

Futre,

---I am not trying to create a unified theory, I already have it worked out. As for trying to state each of my synergistic proposals separately and that being pointless, do me a favour and try to completely describe a rainbow to others, without showing something about each of the colours?

You cannot equate a theory of theology to a theory on physics. Optics is based on empirical exercises, your 'synergistic' proposals are merely point of views and combining such opinions is a sign of laziness.

How about a Higgs Boson? That was considered intangible wasn’t it and until recently, was pretty well incomprehensible, right? What value does it have?

Please dictionary the word intangible in conjunction with Boson.

Intangible: not having physical substance or intrinsic productive value; "intangible assets such as good will"

Boson: any particle that obeys Bose-Einstein statistics but not the Pauli exclusion principle; all nuclei with an even mass number are bosons

So why did you post, “Without setting the foreground on an inquiry makes it more time consuming.” ?
---Since I asked people not to bother putting limits/a confinement on what IT is and try to get past that, why do you need such a foreground?

I can not deduce how you came to that conclusion. What I intended was for you to stop acting with such self centrality, by disposing everyone elses ideas as garbage while asking for them.

Hence, "Another reason is that it is a waste of time and energy, which has seemingly been done to death on every thread that I have scanned through on this site and others. To me, beating a dead horse, simply to try and get someone else disgusted enough to give up their side of a debate is that; beating a dead horse. Don’t waste my time and yours."

---If you wouldn’t mind, Unreal Zelta, could you keep the concept described by my signature out of this discussion, as that slightly diverges from the fun part/reason of this discussion?

I will drop the discussion on your signature as requested.

regards

Zelta