god=energy

[PROFET]

Hello,
We all know how the universe began, but no one knows what energy made the big bang happen, and as a devout catholic, an one of Guilles friends I have been discussing with him and he can't get any proof of the enegy that "turned on" the universe. I think that for someones is budda, ala, but for me is God.

I like physics and if someone wants to talk about God's existence I am not offended, that is what tolerancy is.

[Guille]

He truly is my friend.

Profit, please look at my thread "God" http://www.toequest.com/forum/showth...5&page=1&pp=10

You know what I think. I know what you think. We both say we understand each other's position but we don't because we aren't in it and will never be because you are always you and I am always me.

I hope you get on well with my friends of TOE quest, and that my friends of TOE quest get on well with you (my friend).

And, please, present your theories we have been talking about many days. By the way, the infinite histories theory is not yours (it was invented way before you and I were born).

[Masa Hiryuu]

Hello Profet,
and Welcome to TOE Quest.

I too am a religious Person and like you I believe our universe was created by a "God like figure" but I still analyze and challange my own beliefs in order to either strengthen them or discover the "Truth" whatever that may be, even if it destroys my religious beliefs. So I have no qualms about discussing religion and TOE or Physics because to me they are just two different ways in order to seek the same thing and that is the truth I am just a seeker of that truth... even though the more I seek the more I think the truth is impossible to find.

[Guille]

Masa,

Religion and science are two ways of looking for the same thing. True. This is what is usually said to be knowledge. Some times said to be understanding of nature. Sometimes they say it's to predict. But why do we want to understand, know and predict? Because of the first single reason of our existence (or at least what we have decided to be the reason): POWER.

[PROFET]

THANK U MASA

Science and religion are two different ways, but if these ways exist they must be unified to explain themselves and everything around them. The two diferent ways must become one. The "everything in "toe" must be unified.

see u

[Masa Hiryuu]

Masa,

Religion and science are two ways of looking for the same thing. True. This is what is usually said to be knowledge. Some times said to be understanding of nature. Sometimes they say it's to predict. But why do we want to understand, know and predict? Because of the first single reason of our existence (or at least what we have decided to be the reason): POWER.

Guille are you familiar with Frederick Nietzche?

He was a controversial philosopher who coined the term "Will to Power" and believed that this "Will to Power" was what drove humanity and everything it did. The Will to Power is an idea that all humans (and maybe all life) is attempting to impose their wills on everyone and everything around them to make their view more powerful.

A brief description of his theory can be found here.

http://www.freeessays.cc/db/18/evj167.shtml

[Guille]

Guille are you familiar with Frederick Nietzche?

He was a controversial philosopher who coined the term "Will to Power" and believed that this "Will to Power" was what drove humanity and everything it did. The Will to Power is an idea that all humans (and maybe all life) is attempting to impose their wills on everyone and everything around them to make their view more powerful.

A brief description of his theory can be found here.

http://www.freeessays.cc/db/18/evj167.shtml

I did know about it but not about his work. Good link.

[SinJin]

I agree with you Profet in saying that there is something outside the universe that gave rise to the universe, some sort of energy that "created" this universal existence. I would even call this energy "God" because it was the creator. But I would consider this God to be more like the TOE, some equation or pattern or formula that gave rise to the universe, instead of thinking about it as a conscious being who willfuly created the universe.

But I think there will always be "one more step" we can go. First we start with the universe, and we say that it began with the big bang, and that something, be it energy or God or whatever, made this big bang happen to start the universe. But why should we leave it at that? We ventured far enough to ask what's outside the universe and came up God, so why not ask what's outside of God? Some will say "God always existed, so there is nothing outside." We tried saying the same thing about the universe once upon a time in history, and were proven wrong by the big bang. Unless we have solid evidence that whatever created the big bang is absolute, I think we can always ask "what created God?", and then "what created the thing that created God?" and so on and so on further and further up the ladder, leading to no end.

[Guille]

sinjin,

I agree there must be a pattern or equation to describe the whole universe. Which is more rational than a being-god?

[AntonioLao]

physically speaking, if we equate God=energy then this equation signifies an active God or kinetic God. But a God that is not in active or an inactive God then God=force and the energy becomes potential energy (stored energy or dormant energy). The question to ask is

Is God kinetic energy? Or is God potential energy? Is God awake? Or is God sleeping?

My personal question is whether God is a loving God? Or is God a vengeful God?

A vengeful God punishes disobedience, while a loving God does not. But does a vengeful God punishes someone who is ignorant of His laws?

My own opinion is that the aim of science is to find the true laws of nature. But does God punishes anyone who is trying to understand His laws?