No Beginning.

[chazzysaw]

Scientist believe the universe has a beginning, but the proof they present suggest other wise. First they said the universe began 5 billion years ago. Then they increased the number to 12 billion, I guess the telescopes got stronger. Now they are saying the beginning occurred between 15 and 20 billion years ago. One of the problems I have with the "beginning" theory, is the fact that astronomers are finding stars much older. Is it possible for the child to be older than it's mother? I don't think so. If a time is to be placed on the age of the universe would'nt it be an unexisting number? Not some measly billion or so years. To except the fact that something has no beginning and always was, is inconceivable to most people. We as humans place barriers on everything including time. What is outside of time or what is inside of time or what is time in side out? The Big Bang has been banging is banging and will continue to bang. The universe does not acknowledge time because it has no time, therefore it has no beginning and on end.

[mkirkpatrick]

Chazzysaw,I tend to agree that the "age thing" of the universe does keep getting pushed back,I tend to go along with the eastern idea of cycles,but these cycles run into many
billions of years,not just 40 or 50 billions.


regards michael.

[quanta07]

No beginning….
No end….
I am a firm believer in the Big Bang, on a GALACTIC level,
in that each galaxy owes its’ existence to its’ bang.
Is the concept of beginning and end, a human fallacy in logic?

The universe does not acknowledge time because it has no time

here I have to disagree as I believe the whole of the universe is the UNION of all distance with all of 4 dimensional time. Expansion is the three dimensional subset of this UNION. Each galaxy is a single point in 4D spacetime which we view as (X,Y,Z,t), unfortunately.
From this limited view, linear time has a beginning, the bang, our galactic bang.
But the cosmos, the universe, appears Non-linear, full of continuing Big Bangs, with no beginning and no end. Each Big Bang generating an expansion function, a new point on a 4 dimensional time plane, a new galaxy,
Happy Thoughts………….Q7

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathematics-articles/427-pure-mathematics-space-time.html?garpg=2

[austintorn@aol.com]

Somewhere back along the line, the universe may have begun from something prior, but since creation out of absolutely nothing seems out of the question, there must be a basis that existed forever.

On another, but similar subject... Does a photon never get old since time stops at the speed of light?

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Somewhere back along the line, the universe may have begun from something prior, but since creation out of absolutely nothing seems out of the question, there must be a basis that existed forever.

On another, but similar subject... Does a photon never get old since time stops at the speed of light?

Good one, Austin...

Lloyd

[quanta07]

Somewhere back along the line, the universe may have begun from something prior, but since creation out of absolutely nothing seems out of the question, there must be a basis that existed forever.

On another, but similar subject... Does a photon never get old since time stops at the speed of light?

Was there nothing, or was there a void of only distance?
If the ‘bang’ is representative of a union of distance and a single point in 4 dimensional time….
The 3 dimensional subset of this union provides existence of Volume(3), Surface area(2) and Distance(1) within a 3 dimensional subset there is also the union of distance and the subset inverses of time Velocity(1), Acceleration(2), and Impulse(3)……..yielding a bounded expansion function, a galaxy.
To look back in ‘linear time’ for the creation of the whole universe, we must observe all points in 4D time, (All galaxies). This we cannot do because the appearance of infinite distance, and ‘C’ limits light observations of these galaxies to our time frame.
Evolving within the distance domain of expansion, we observe elements of the velocity domain of expansion as light, photons. They appear to us as both particle with velocity ‘C’ and as two 2 dimensional waves. This duality stems from the properties of the velocity domain of the expansion function. Within expansion, Light is 4 dimensional velocity, 3 dimensional spheres of velocity(photons) plus 1 dimension of velocity = ‘C’.
Relatively speaking….Given an observer and a traveler, the fixed observer sees the traveler approach light speed. The craft of the traveler appears to shrink then disappear. Relativity occurs for the observer, time for the traveler passes normally. For the traveler, Distance in space to the left/right and up/down shrinks, and the traveler leaves the distance domain of expansion exceeding the domain boundary of ‘C’, entering the velocity domain of expansion. The traveler and craft enter the quantum world of light, where an atom might be solar sized.
I do not think photons get old or last forever because we cannot equate these elements to linear time.
There are many who believe the concept….. ‘you can’t get something from nothing’ and they search for that ‘fundamental substance’.
Within the subset of the union of distance and point in 4 dimensional time, the three dimensional subset is expansion which generates the existence of everything we observe and ponder. This is creation without divine intervention. Creation from a void of only distance, and then there was light!
For galaxies there are beginnings and there are ends,
but for all the cosmos….I choose to believe its existence is cyclical, a mobius ring, no beginning, no end.

Happy thoughts………………..Q7

http://www.toequest.com/forum/mathem...e.html?garpg=2

[chazzysaw]

Is the Big Bang the center of the universe? Is this were we measure the beginning of everything. Is it at the beginning like a wall with nothing behind it blowing everything away from it or like a surrounded explosion pushing everything away in all directions or maybe it's spinning like a top releasing galaxies as if they were debris flying off the top creating a spiral effect. Is there more than one center or only one. I know I'm not the only one asking these questions and more. Nor do I believe these questions will be answered in my life time. We have a long way to go.

[quanta07]

Is the Big Bang the center of the universe? Is this were we measure the beginning of everything. Is it at the beginning like a wall with nothing behind it blowing everything away from it or like a surrounded explosion pushing everything away in all directions or maybe it's spinning like a top releasing galaxies as if they were debris flying off the top creating a spiral effect. Is there more than one center or only one. I know I'm not the only one asking these questions and more. Nor do I believe these questions will be answered in my life time. We have a long way to go.

A common belief is that our Milky Way was formed with a Big Bang. Tracing the movement of our galaxy back in time, seems to indicate that our 'bang' may have occurred within the Virgo Super cluster, sending many galaxies outward until the clusters' enormous gravity has slowed, stopped and is pulling our Local group back towards this cluster...
http://www.seds.org/messier/more/virgo.html
Many hold the belief that an individual Big Bang created each individual galaxy....
and that No individual 'bang' created the entire universe..........Q7

[quanta07]

For all you scientist and others interested in space, a theory of everthing, in particular string theory, I strongly recommend this site as a source of video content information……
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
if you have Real Player OR Quicktime video software installed. These video programs well worth your time…………Q7

[dleviwing]

String theory is a theory without any supporting evidence and is only a gauge theory that can describe gravity more accurately; the rest is Dr. Greene’s book selling hype.