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Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-01-2007, 10:21 AM
I always feel that "absolute vacuum" is a disaster to theory developers.
However, mainstream followers just bootstrap equations of mainstream theoretical physics. They simply take spacetime as in-between the entities of matter-energy. They follow physics textbooks to say that spacetime continuum and quantum fluctuations in space as the phenomena of vacuum rather than of ether. They forget that vacuum should means emptiness (empty of any physical continuum [including spacetime continuum] and fluctuations) while ether is a physical continuum [though non-material].
(Is spacetime a physical continuum or not physical?)
Actually, those physics terms like: field, quantum fluctuation, loop quantum, spacetime continuum, wrapped spacetime, dark matter are more ether-like rather than vacuum-like.
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-01-2007, 03:02 PM
Dear Bottomlander:
Thank you for this iimportant thread and its links.
"There is no space empty of field". - Einstein
The electromagnetic field itself seems a likely candidate as the 'ether' medium of space, whatever else may be shaking, in that consideration.
Best regards,
- RP
(George Berkeley, 1710) ... lay the beginning in a distinct explication of what is meant by thing, reality, existence: for in vain shall we dispute concerning the real existence of things, or pretend to any knowledge thereof, so long as we have not fixed the meaning of those words.
"All things come out of the one and the one out of all things." - Heraclitus "Reality is an illusion - albeit a persistent one." - Einstein "Particles give me a headache." - Ibid
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-01-2007, 06:32 PM
"There is no space empty of field". - Einstein
"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G. "The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-01-2007, 11:42 PM
In the 1905 Einstein paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" he wrote: "The introduction of a 'light ether' will prove to be superfluous, inasmuch as the view to be developed here will not require "a space at absolute rest.' "
Newtonian mechanics was the belief in the absolute measure of nature. The ether prior to 1905 was considered a state of absolute rest. Einstein rewrote the Newtonian physics of absolute measure, absolute time, and absolute ether and found measure to be only relative to the observer. Quantum mechanics was born. I don't believe he discarded the ether, only the absolute measure of it.
Space is the unity of both fields and particles, or everything, don't you think? E=M
= MJA
The truth of everything is less than one inch,
it is only equal and the lion is one.
One is free when the door is opened,
education has the key.
=
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-02-2007, 03:51 PM
MJA, your post should be edited to "observer position", not observer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJA
In the 1905 Einstein paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" he wrote: "The introduction of a 'light ether' will prove to be superfluous, inasmuch as the view to be developed here will not require "a space at absolute rest.' "
Newtonian mechanics was the belief in the absolute measure of nature. The ether prior to 1905 was considered a state of absolute rest. Einstein rewrote the Newtonian physics of absolute measure, absolute time, and absolute ether and found measure to be only relative to the observer[Position]. Quantum mechanics was born. I don't believe he discarded the ether, only the absolute measure of it.
Space is the unity of both fields and particles, or everything, don't you think? E=M
= MJA
Lloyd
"To develop the skill of correct thinking is in the first place to learn what you have to disregard. In order to go on, you have to know what to leave out; this is the essence of effective thinking." Kurt Godel "Time and space are modes in which we think and not conditions in which we live." Albert Einstein "The uncertainty principle is an absolute, finite, universal constant." L.G. "The tick-tick-tick of the cesium atom is a sliding-time-scaler constant of all finite universal motion." L.G.
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-02-2007, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJA
In the 1905 Einstein paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" he wrote: "The introduction of a 'light ether' will prove to be superfluous, inasmuch as the view to be developed here will not require "a space at absolute rest.' "
I don't believe he discarded the ether, only the absolute measure of it.
MJA
Ether conception has a very long history, since ancient Greeks. Different ether models had been accepted during the progress of natural philosophy and physics. Many old ether models had been overthrown, just like what happened after the dominance of special relativity. However, once a new theory requires a field/continuum, ether-like conception can be updated. That is what happened to Einstein, over 10 years after SR, he accepted ether for GR. Really many theories, like the GR, need a field/continuum and thus ether-like rather than vacuum-like.
Dear MJA, I cannot catchup your implication to mention Einstein had wrote "The introduction of a 'light ether' will prove to be superfluous, inasmuch as the view to be developed here will not require 'a space at absolute rest.'
Anyhow, same as the common practises of any thinkers, you should know that a human can change his/her viewpoint after re-think. Despite your quote in 1905, Einstein can update his viewpoint to accept ether in 1920. (And I read a 7th preface to a book Relativity wrote by Einstein himself just a few years before his death that seemingly he still concludes entities of matter-energy extended [as ether-like].) So I agree with what MJA wrote "I don't believe he discarded the ether, only the absolute measure of it."
Best Regards. Bottomlander
ps. most people can improve their theories except those already finalized by oversimplified assertions like "everything equals". It is too hard to modify into "everything equals except .....in some hierarchies, in some conditions, .....".
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-03-2007, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottomlander
ps. most people can improve their theories except those already finalized by oversimplified assertions like "everything equals". It is too hard to modify into "everything equals except .....in some hierarchies, in some conditions, .....".
It is impossible to simplify the simplest truth.
= MJA
The truth of everything is less than one inch,
it is only equal and the lion is one.
One is free when the door is opened,
education has the key.
=
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-07-2007, 11:14 AM
Hi everyone;
My question is what is the "ether"?
Is it Dirac's negative space? Is it spacetime ( quantum ) foam? Is it gravitional waves that bind all matter? Is it the background radiation? ( photons ) Is it electro/magnetic fields?
Your thoughts please.
Best to all,
Pat
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR)
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-07-2007, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Profpat
Hi everyone;
My question is what is the "ether"?
Is it Dirac's negative space? Is it spacetime ( quantum ) foam? Is it gravitional waves that bind all matter? Is it the background radiation? ( photons ) Is it electro/magnetic fields?
Your thoughts please.
Best to all,
Pat
I have my own model of ether. Anyhow, I am satisfied with Ether as an umbrella model as long as any continua in-between matter-energy contribute to the inclusion of physical reality in a theory.
Vacuum concept is oversimplified. In contrast, any non-vacuum are ether-like.
And all ATM (Against The Mainstream) concepts are helpful to explore the physical reality of the universe rather than just mathematical simplification.
Re: Einstein accepted Ether (at least around the time upon his GR) -
10-03-2007, 12:55 PM
Linear Mode
