The Illusion Of Time And Space

[Max™]

All around you, within you.

You are the object experiencing itself.

[melanie]

It is seen that there is no objectivity in thought/thinker/memory/knowledge.
Also seen the thinker is thought, the observer is the observed.
One cannot be without the other, since they are one and the same.
So, It is seen that memory is one with the one who knows, the thinker is thought.
And it is seen there can be no objecitivity in thought, because it is fragmented in itself, partial in itself.
So, there will always be subjectivity in it, and the word subjectivity means limitation.
So it is seen that thought/thinker can never be completely objective.
The purpose of it, what it 'lives for' is to understand life completely objectively.
And to understand means: to see completely objectively.

mel.

[Blackcrow]

It is seen that there is no objectivity in thought/thinker/memory/knowledge.
Also seen the thinker is thought, the observer is the observed.
One cannot be without the other, since they are one and the same.
So, It is seen that memory is one with the one who knows, the thinker is thought.
And it is seen there can be no objecitivity in thought, because it is fragmented in itself, partial in itself.
So, there will always be subjectivity in it, and the word subjectivity means limitation.
So it is seen that thought/thinker can never be completely objective.
The purpose of it, what it 'lives for' is to understand life completely objectively.
And to understand means: to see completely objectively.

mel.

Is it just me or is this sort of reply a bit too self indulgent. I like you Mel, I like your passion and your ability to fathom deep thinking but I am having to spend 1/2 an hour each time trying to figure out your riddles, very frustrating.
Mind you, maybe I'm not spending half an hour on anything because time doesn'e exist in the real world but only in my mind so who is typing this keyboard then?

[Mikal]

It is seen that there is no objectivity in thought/thinker/memory/knowledge.
Also seen the thinker is thought, the observer is the observed.
One cannot be without the other, since they are one and the same.
So, It is seen that memory is one with the one who knows, the thinker is thought.
And it is seen there can be no objecitivity in thought, because it is fragmented in itself, partial in itself.
So, there will always be subjectivity in it, and the word subjectivity means limitation.
So it is seen that thought/thinker can never be completely objective.
The purpose of it, what it 'lives for' is to understand life completely objectively.
And to understand means: to see completely objectively.

mel.

Hi Mel...I have trouble grasping your post here concerning objective thought. It is the nature of the mind to function both objectively outward and subjectively inward. In fact with the recent incline of society to meditative preoccupations we could say it is about the further development of the subjective nature of humankind. It is also really not clear whether we are doing this for purely spiritual purposes or possibly inherently nature has her way through our instincts to attempt to balance an overused objective mind function....


Mikal

[melanie]

Hi Mel...I have trouble grasping your post here concerning objective thought. It is the nature of the mind to function both objectively outward and subjectively inward. In fact with the recent incline of society to meditative preoccupations we could say it is about the further development of the subjective nature of humankind. It is also really not clear whether we are doing this for purely spiritual purposes or possibly inherently nature has her way through our instincts to attempt to balance an overused objective mind function....


Mikal

Hi Mikal and Blackcrow.
I'm sorry you are unable to grasp my post, sometimes even I have difficulty grasping my posts too..lol
Anyway, understanding our reality is always a personal experiencing, I'm sure you know that already.
I can in no way, get you to understand how I perceive my reality, no more than I can perceive yours.

So here I have attempted to clarify some areas in my original post...hope it helps.

If not.....I give up

Subjectively,the perception of our own existence is dependent on the mind
in that when I identify with a form, a thought, I breathe life into it, I become form and thought...
I become the object of my mind, my desire I become the experiencing of life objectively.
The mind is the tool in which awareness uses to express itself, it is an aspect of awareness and not separate from.
Subject and Object are one.

The desire for life to experience itself is like a ''fire burning within'' an eternal flame, an energy.
Feeling there is nothing but this fire, this energy, this desire, this passion, this burn, IS the objectivity.
But we ARE NOT the mind.
We are something beyond mere concepts and hearsay , our actual fundamental reality is Pure Absolute Awareness.
We are No-Thing & No-One ...it only ''appears'' that way.

Our true identity is unlimited boundless, open, empty, spacious Awareness-Aliveness-Isness.
Empirically we can all personally discover for ourselves the truth of our real identity through the experience of meditation.
Or self inquiry.

The only persons who might have difficulty with this
are those who are stuck in their mind and thoughts (ego) unwilling to recognize what's so subjectively obvious on "this side" of the mind.
We are not the limitations of the mind/brain/body.
The mind/brain/body is the vehicle for expression.
Emotions, feelings,thought,sensations,
''arise'' THROUGH the mind AS the mind, but THE MIND is not these sensations/thoughts arising...It is purely the ''experiencing'' of them as an objective reality.

These sensations senses 'arise' AS No-thing & TO No-One.

We are Infinite Unlimited Consciousness....Or Pure Absolute Awareness.
If anyone has ever studied Advaita nonduality ..what I am saying will become clear to you.
But sometimes even I have difficulties putting the ineffable into words...although I do like to try.
And it is certainly not my intension to confuse.
I personally believe that the ideas put forward in Advaita nonduality to be the absolute truth of existence itself... IMHO
Advaita nonduality is a Philosophy the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.

Namaste' mel.

[melanie]

Is it just me or is this sort of reply a bit too self indulgent. I like you Mel, I like your passion and your ability to fathom deep thinking but I am having to spend 1/2 an hour each time trying to figure out your riddles, very frustrating.
Mind you, maybe I'm not spending half an hour on anything because time doesn'e exist in the real world but only in my mind so who is typing this keyboard then?

It is the ''Self'' IT-Self, that indulges itself through us as us.
So yes, you could say this is too ''2 self'' indulgent... (smile)
We are a reflected image of the imageless.

No-one or thing is typing on the keyboard, it happens automatically all by itself.
Doing is done, no doer thereof.

Another simple analogy for this would be the grass.
Does the grass ask itself how it defies the force of gravity?
It just keeps on growing.

Life ''appears'' as IT-Self there are no ''others'' .. thinking about it blocks IT.
the thinking mechanism, muddies, puts smoke on the pristine mirror, distorting the pure reflection.

..There's no smoke without fire!
The Flame in my heart gives rise to the smokey mirror of mind wherein the details of my destiny dance alive.
The smokey haze of life
dances alive the Flame in
my heart that burns
with my beloveds return.

Which is wonderful.

[melanie]

It is seen that there is no objectivity in thought/thinker/memory/knowledge.
Also seen the thinker is thought, the observer is the observed.
One cannot be without the other, since they are one and the same.
So, It is seen that memory is one with the one who knows, the thinker is thought.
And it is seen there can be no objecitivity in thought, because it is fragmented in itself, partial in itself.
So, there will always be subjectivity in it, and the word subjectivity means limitation.
So it is seen that thought/thinker can never be completely objective.
The purpose of it, what it 'lives for' is to understand life completely objectively.
And to understand means: to see completely objectively.

mel.

IOW, there is no objective reality.
All there is, is SEEING....Pure Awareness.

THAT what is SEEN subjectively, is an ''image'' and not the 'actual object' outside your head.

[Blackcrow]

It is the ''Self'' IT-Self, that indulges itself through us as us.
So yes, you could say this is too ''2 self'' indulgent... (smile)
We are a reflected image of the imageless.

No-one or thing is typing on the keyboard, it happens automatically all by itself.
Doing is done, no doer thereof.

Another simple analogy for this would be the grass.
Does the grass ask itself how it defies the force of gravity?
It just keeps on growing.

Life ''appears'' as IT-Self there are no ''others'' .. thinking about it blocks IT.
the thinking mechanism, muddies, puts smoke on the pristine mirror, distorting the pure reflection.

..There's no smoke without fire!
The Flame in my heart gives rise to the smokey mirror of mind wherein the details of my destiny dance alive.
The smokey haze of life
dances alive the Flame in
my heart that burns
with my beloveds return.

Which is wonderful.

I'm sorry I was rude to you, I really love your insight. I was like a bear with a sore head yesterday, no excuse for rudeness but apology given.

[Mikal]

Hi Mikal and Blackcrow.
I'm sorry you are unable to grasp my post, sometimes even I have difficulty grasping my posts too..lol
Anyway, understanding our reality is always a personal experiencing, I'm sure you know that already.
I can in no way, get you to understand how I perceive my reality, no more than I can perceive yours.

So here I have attempted to clarify some areas in my original post...hope it helps.

If not.....I give up

Subjectively,the perception of our own existence is dependent on the mind
in that when I identify with a form, a thought, I breathe life into it, I become form and thought...
I become the object of my mind, my desire I become the experiencing of life objectively.
The mind is the tool in which awareness uses to express itself, it is an aspect of awareness and not separate from.
Subject and Object are one.

The desire for life to experience itself is like a ''fire burning within'' an eternal flame, an energy.
Feeling there is nothing but this fire, this energy, this desire, this passion, this burn, IS the objectivity.
But we ARE NOT the mind.
We are something beyond mere concepts and hearsay , our actual fundamental reality is Pure Absolute Awareness.
We are No-Thing & No-One ...it only ''appears'' that way.

Our true identity is unlimited boundless, open, empty, spacious Awareness-Aliveness-Isness.
Empirically we can all personally discover for ourselves the truth of our real identity through the experience of meditation.
Or self inquiry.

The only persons who might have difficulty with this
are those who are stuck in their mind and thoughts (ego) unwilling to recognize what's so subjectively obvious on "this side" of the mind.
We are not the limitations of the mind/brain/body.
The mind/brain/body is the vehicle for expression.
Emotions, feelings,thought,sensations,
''arise'' THROUGH the mind AS the mind, but THE MIND is not these sensations/thoughts arising...It is purely the ''experiencing'' of them as an objective reality.

These sensations senses 'arise' AS No-thing & TO No-One.

We are Infinite Unlimited Consciousness....Or Pure Absolute Awareness.
If anyone has ever studied Advaita nonduality ..what I am saying will become clear to you.
But sometimes even I have difficulties putting the ineffable into words...although I do like to try.
And it is certainly not my intension to confuse.
I personally believe that the ideas put forward in Advaita nonduality to be the absolute truth of existence itself... IMHO
Advaita nonduality is a Philosophy the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.

Namaste' mel.

Mel...I don't think we should say that if someone does not understand your statements above that they are struck in their (ego) mind and thoughts.
I have difficulty grasping the way you are putting your thoughts forward here and I have experienced what is called the "spiritualizing" of the ego which is the same as the ancient story of the mystical wedding and what Jung declared as the process of integrating the consciousness to bring balance and order to the mind and psyche.

The amount of misinformation and disinformation about the ego as a structural component within the psyche is massive...


Mikal

[Blackcrow]

Mel...I don't think we should say that if someone does not understand your statements above that they are struck in their (ego) mind and thoughts.
I have difficulty grasping the way you are putting your thoughts forward here and I have experienced what is called the "spiritualizing" of the ego which is the same as the ancient story of the mystical wedding and what Jung declared as the process of integrating the consciousness to bring balance and order to the mind and psyche.

The amount of misinformation and disinformation about the ego as a structural component within the psyche is massive...


Mikal

I think mel is saying that ego would hamper one's ability to become fully aware, or to fully journey into this concept because it is the ego that keeps us trapped in conciousness and stops us completely letting go to our inner intuition since it is the ego that controls our levels of confidence.