The Illusion Of Time And Space

[Mikal]

Hi Blackcrow...when one accomplishes becoming fully aware it is because of the ego. If consciousness becomes integrated it is because of the ego. One is not trapped in cousciousness, one is consciousness at varying levels and in altered states. One cannot even reach inner intuition without the ego. The ego is a main construct in the psyche and performs quite complicated connections to other more fragile psychic constructs. Consciousness develops through an ego-building process that involves every stage of life.
It is the ego that achieves consciouness.....


Mikal

[melanie]

Mel...I don't think we should say that if someone does not understand your statements above that they are struck in their (ego) mind and thoughts.
I have difficulty grasping the way you are putting your thoughts forward here and I have experienced what is called the "spiritualizing" of the ego which is the same as the ancient story of the mystical wedding and what Jung declared as the process of integrating the consciousness to bring balance and order to the mind and psyche.

The amount of misinformation and disinformation about the ego as a structural component within the psyche is massive...


Mikal

You misconstrue my comments Mikal, I in no way made a reference, that people are stuck in their ego mind if they didn't understand my post.
I said people who are stuck in their ego self fail to recognize that they are more than their limited separate self, that they are really boundless pure awareness.


....I was making a general sweeping statement regarding the (ego) It is a fact that people are very ''attached'' to their little 'i' the me me me...but unknowably so.

When there is identification with the ''separate self''
their ''true self'' may go un-realized.
That was the point i was trying to make.

There is no such idea as mis-information of dis-information.
All there is is intuitive understanding that comes straight from the heart.
You either understand something or you don't.
We can misconstrue other peoples views that's all.
Interpreting our reality is a personal experience that is influenced by our upbringing.

Ever since i first joined this forum, i have consistently discussed the concept of Nonduality.
This puts forward the idea that there is no such thing as (ego)
It is a man-made concept.

So, all i'm saying is that when we let go of this assumed separate 'i' person.
We can feel and re-connect to our divine eternal source.
Where would be the suffering in the world if we all realized there is no separate assumed 'i' person.

I know you have personally experienced '' the ancient story of the mystical wedding '' .. you have said so many times on this forum.

Although you have, many people haven't and the reason for this is because they still identify with their assumed separate self unknowingly.
That's my point.
If you fully understood this mystical wedding and i'm not saying you don't, then you would and surely be able to grasp what it is i am saying.
Since you say you don't, then i'm confused about that.

We are probably saying the same things but differently...no problems.

If you can't grasp the way i word my thoughts why care if you've already understand the inner workings of the human psyche.

Why be concerned of what i'm writing about.
Either you understand me or you don't,
there are others here who do understood my posts, some will some won't.

melanie.

[melanie]

I'm sorry I was rude to you, I really love your insight. I was like a bear with a sore head yesterday, no excuse for rudeness but apology given.

You wasn't rude at all, i didn't see it like that...no problems.

I like your voice here Blackcrow, welcome.

Hope you stay awhile.

melanie.

[Blackcrow]

Hi Blackcrow...when one accomplishes becoming fully aware it is because of the ego. If consciousness becomes integrated it is because of the ego. One is not trapped in cousciousness, one is consciousness at varying levels and in altered states. One cannot even reach inner intuition without the ego. The ego is a main construct in the psyche and performs quite complicated connections to other more fragile psychic constructs. Consciousness develops through an ego-building process that involves every stage of life.
It is the ego that achieves consciouness.....


Mikal

I understand what you are saying but I am struggling with your use of the word consciousness. Consciousness to me is the state of our mind that keeps us aware, as a survival mechanism, of all the worldly things which affect us. (awareness)
The ego is a state of mind that, as a by product of our reasoning, serves to help us survive by communicating to us how to behave in any given circumstance, it is moulded by our experiences in life.
(confidence)
The subconscious is that state of mind where our reality lays, where we connect with more fragile psychic constructs and so on.
Every teaching that I am aware of involving the freeing of one's mind to find psychological truth or spiritual answers/journeying relates to the ability to bypass the ego in order to resource the subconscious mind. The conscious mind is that which keeps us "trapped" in the details of life, it is controlled by the ego, the subconscious mind is that which allows us to become fully aware by bypassing this control.

[melanie]

Mel...I don't think we should say that if someone does not understand your statements above that they are struck in their (ego) mind and thoughts.
I have difficulty grasping the way you are putting your thoughts forward here and I have experienced what is called the "spiritualizing" of the ego which is the same as the ancient story of the mystical wedding and what Jung declared as the process of integrating the consciousness to bring balance and order to the mind and psyche.

The amount of misinformation and disinformation about the ego as a structural component within the psyche is massive...


Mikal

Here i have gathered some (Quotes)
My appearance on this forum, is to share these ideas and inspire people.
I'm not about debating the inner workings of the human psyche.
We are all capable of assessing and accessing
our own ability to function in the world,
we do not need to depend on other people,
for professional psychological help and advice to tell us how to function.
Especially when we are not alluding to a personal separate self.
I strongly say this because i personally have had the experience of having to rely strictly on my own self.
So i am living proof that psychological problems are non existent and all in the mind.

So here now are the quotes.
This is what the true meaning of life is all about.
We are faceless life.
Where is your face?? until you look in a mirror.
Look in a mirror, all you see is nothing.
Just an image, a reflection, we do not exist as separateness.
That's all i'm trying to say......

_______________________________
LOOK AT THE DATES ... of the wisdom that never changes.



According to the Muslim Jalalu'l-Din Rumi, Persia's greatest mystical poet (1207-1273): he said to "Behead yourself!"
"Dissolve your whole body into Vision: become seeing, seeing, seeing!"

"Mind and body dropped off!" exclaims Dogen (1200-1253) in an ecstasy of release "Dropped off!" "Dropped off!

This state must be experienced by you all.
it is like piling fruit into a basket without a bottom,
it is like pouring water into a bowl with a hole in it."
"All of a sudden you find your mind and body wiped out of existence,"
1685-1768 ..says Hakuin.


"This is what is known as letting go your hold.
As you regain your breath it is like drinking water and knowing it is cold. It is joy inexpressible."

All agree that the distinction between mind and body,
subject and object, knower and known,

is abolished in the great Mirror-Void; seeing into one's self-nature is seeing into nothingness,
into no-soul, no-mind, no-body;
and this seeing is the never-failing delight and solace,
far surpassing all earthly happiness.

The eminent Zen scholar and adept, Dr. Daisetsu Teitaro Suzuki himself puts the matter in a nutshell for us:
"To Zen, incarnation is excarnation; the flesh is no-flesh; here-now equals emptiness and infinity."


THAT IMHO ... IS WHO WE ARE


_______________________________


melanie.

[Mikal]

Hi Guys...Just trying to smooth out a misconstrued idea of the ego. I will be off to other threads now because when you cannot debate without slipping in personal derogatory opinions and without a sense of respect and then building up your defense with a supposed background of collective viewers well its not a debate...it becomes an attack.

One thought of the TOE is that it should in the end be understandable by a child...so I cannot see how complexity of expressed thought like that could be understood by a child...


Peace Mikal

[melanie]

Hi Guys...Just trying to smooth out a misconstrued idea of the ego. I will be off to other threads now because when you cannot debate without slipping in personal derogatory opinions and without a sense of respect and then building up your defense with a supposed background of collective viewers well its not a debate...it becomes an attack.
One thought of the TOE is that it should in the end be understandable by a child...so I cannot see how complexity of expressed thought like that could be understood by a child...


Peace Mikal

I'm not reporting what i know
I'm not reporting what i don't know
I'm not reporting what i think i know
I'm not reporting what i think i should know

I'm just reporting my SURROUND....(Progressive Revelation)

With eyes that SEE ... and ears that HEAR

And with... ''ORDINARY AUTOMATIC FUNCTIONAL SENSES''


This ego is also part of any discussion... unavoidably so.

[Blackcrow]

Hi Guys...Just trying to smooth out a misconstrued idea of the ego. I will be off to other threads now because when you cannot debate without slipping in personal derogatory opinions and without a sense of respect and then building up your defense with a supposed background of collective viewers well its not a debate...it becomes an attack.
One thought of the TOE is that it should in the end be understandable by a child...so I cannot see how complexity of expressed thought like that could be understood by a child...


Peace Mikal

But that is your ego talking. Without the existance of the ego we would exist in a state of pure logic and our feelings would become moot, this would allow us to transcend conscious thought and openly explore the inner psyche/subconscious mind where we might discover a simpler way of communicating through thought rather than having to get bogged down in vocabulary and language. It would be easier then to write in a manner that a child could understand. Until then though, I personally find it difficult to speak as if to a child because I hve no experience of talking to children and so am not practised at it. I do however try as much as possible to keep my explanations simple and plain spoken which I note is a rare quality on this forum as I have found that most people here are scientific and write in an overly analytical manner or are deeply spiritual and write in an overly ambiguous manner such as we are accusing Mel of doing.
For my part, I have not attacked you in any way so I hope you are not referring to me in your statement and where I thought I had been rude to Mel, I have apologised.
I think there is a lot of ego present in debates of this nature because they discuss inner, personal belief which is always hard to relate to others and very much includes a defensive wall because we are so used to being critisised in life. I get the impression that there is a history of disagreement here so there is a "raiding of your museum of hurts" making the feelings here not specific to just this topic but to previous bouts of confrontation.
The whole essence of the discussion here is how to transcend the ego which I have stated is the key factor in "trapping" us in the conscious world and this is the perfect example of what I mean.
Yesterday I was in a foul mood and it affected my judgement on what people were saying to me. I fell out with Dave and was rude to Mel. This played on my mind because it generated feelings of responsibility, guilt and embarassment. It reminded me that no matter what I've learned in life, no matter how advanced my thinking or conceptualising may be, I am still just a hurt child who needs to let go of ego based negative emotion in order to free my mind to learn new concepts and improve my relations with new people I meet.
It is in this release from the constraints of the ego that we can move on in our thinking, our relationships and our abilities to understand.
Instead of running away from the argument I had yesterday, I took time to think about what was making me angry and once I understood it I realised that Dave was not to blame, I was because he was reminding me of a time in my life when I was thought badly of and I felt desperate not to let it happen again. I made myself angry because of holding onto past events, Dave did not make me angry he just made my ego kick in through me rememberance of past woes.
My father has a great expression for business, "Take the emotion out of it and you'll see the truth."
I feel like I'm preaching here. I'm sure you are aware of how to move past you negative emotions. I'm just using the point to illustrate how important and powerful the ego is in terms of keeping us "trapped" in the conscious mind.
Hope this makes sense, I've got a lot of background noise here and it's very distracting so I apologise if I've contradicted myself anywhere here.

[melanie]

Hi Guys...Just trying to smooth out a misconstrued idea of the ego. I will be off to other threads now because when you cannot debate without slipping in personal derogatory opinions and without a sense of respect and then building up your defense with a supposed background of collective viewers well its not a debate...it becomes an attack.

One thought of the TOE is that it should in the end be understandable by a child...so I cannot see how complexity of expressed thought like that could be understood by a child...


Peace Mikal

Granted Mikal that you are discussing here the misconstrued idea of ego.
I totally agree with you, that the ego is an important aspect needed for the development of a healthy human psyche.
The ego evolved as a personal survival mechanism.
But's that's not what i am discussing here at this forum, and i never have done.
The ideas that i am putting forward are completely different.
I'm only ever talking about the impersonal aspects of reality.
I'm saying that the idea of the ego is illusional just as is all life.

You are coming from the perspective of real reality, whereas i am coming from the perspective of illusional reality that's all.

Now, the reality IS that life is neither real or illusional.
It just IS.....

Anyway, i'm sorry if you felt under attack by me.
Read Blackcrows post, it hits the nail on the head, about how people can easily slip into attack mode.
Not all of us are made of stainless steel.

Life is all vanity and entertainment.
And it always will be the way i see it.
That's the whole point of it.....it's an endless dance.
Sometimes we tread on each others TOE's....



____________________________________________


That everything is included within your mind is the essence of mind. To experience this is to have religious feeling. Even though waves arise, the essence of your mind is pure; it is just like clear water with a few waves. Actually water always has waves. Waves are the practice of the water. To speak of waves apart from water or water apart from waves is a delusion. Water and waves are one. Big mind and small mind are one. When you understand your mind in this way, you have some security in your feeling. As your mind does not expect anything from outside, it is always filled. A mind with waves in it is not a disturbed mind, but actually an amplified one. Whatever you experience is an expression of big mind.
The activity of big mind is to amplify itself through various experiences. In one sense our experiences coming one by one are always fresh and new, but in another sense they are nothing but a continuous or repeated unfolding of the one big mind.
Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind

[ggullet]

If there is no time in the Universe how can it have an age?