The Illusion Of Time And Space

[munty13]

"If there is no time in the Universe how can it have an age?"

We examine parts of the Universe and then give it an age. We like to know the age of something - it gives us somekind of perspective.

So we think we know that the Universe is billions of years old. Cool. But what does billions of years really mean? What does billions of years really feel like?

It immerges that the only thing that is real is this moment... and then this moment. I can think about billions of years, but I will only ever think of them in this moment... and then this moment ...etc.

[melanie]

If there is no time in the Universe how can it have an age?

When the mind/body/organism in this duality with it's individuality cease.....similar to the state we are in during deep dreamless sleep.
Then the mind with it's concepts cease...only awareness unaware of itself is aware.

The idea/concept of time 'arises' on contact in consciousness as consciousness comes online...wakes from unconsciousness.

Still that idea/concept of time has ''appeared'' in consciousness, it is a movement in the mind, a mind movement/memory...A mental construct.

All there is.. IS the Absolute ..within which every-thing arises ''out of'' and ''returning into'' like the in-breath and out-breath.

All ''concepts'' including the ''age of the universe'' ''time'' and ''space'' are all known already in consciousness.
All Arising as oneness one without a second.
There is NOTHING outside of that.
All there is IS NOW.

Mel.
________________________________________

Mikal, your reasonings come from the ego/mind.
Whereas my reasonings come from the no-ego/ no-mind.
That's why we have problems understanding each other.
NOW...
Imagine that All Is One, yet there appears in the manifestation that there are differences, like the apparent difference between ego and no-ego.

But the presense of ego could in no way be less Oneness, but simply Oneness arising as ego.
So despite the appearance of difference.
All would equally be a manifestation of Oneness.
Including 'you' exactly as 'you' already are.

Ego or no-ego makes no difference as this Oneness is both.

MIKAL:
The amount of misinformation and disinformation about the ego as a structural component within the psyche is massive...

THAT STATEMENT is just more ego/mind talk already known 'arising' in consciousness.
It is just more paint added to the screen...makes no difference to the screen...it stays the same...forever unchanged in the NOW

Personally, and very consistently throughout this forum, all i have ever discussed is exactly the same as what i am still trying to discuss.
My perception/perspective comes from no-ego/no-mind.
I am not deliberately trying to mislead or mis-inform people.

What i put forward is the truth of existence if we honestly look deep within to realize it...IMHO

I hope that clears up any misunderstandings.

Timeandspaceisillusionallikemunty13suggests.

Peace.
Mel.

[melanie]

One thought of the TOE is that it should in the end be understandable by a child...

so I cannot see how complexity of expressed thought like that could be understood by a child...


Peace Mikal

Only the mind/brain organism 'identifies' with the concept 'complexity' in this duality.

In reality, there is both complexity and simplicity and yet there is neither...Not this belief .. Not that belief.

Usually, Babies & Children live and function in their natural state, one of oneness with all things.
It is 'we' that tell them 'they' are separate...(Conditioning)

Separateness does not exist.
But in this world..In this dream of separation.
IT 'appears' that you are a label, a name, a concept, you have been invented by the world you live in, for it's own interests and continuity.

'We' Invent our reality, we label it, we give it names, we do this as a survival instinct so as to aid the continuity of existence.

'We' create the concept of 'Duality' with our individuality.



IOW....it is 'we' that complicate, what is otherwise, very very simple.

mel.

[melanie]

Mel...I don't think we should say that if someone does not understand your statements above that they are struck in their (ego) mind and thoughts.
I have difficulty grasping the way you are putting your thoughts forward here and I have experienced what is called the "spiritualizing" of the ego which is the same as the ancient story of the mystical wedding and what Jung declared as the process of integrating the consciousness to bring balance and order to the mind and psyche.

The amount of misinformation and disinformation about the ego as a structural component within the psyche is massive...


Mikal

I've had another ponder over this post mikal.

And it has suddenly dawned on me that we have both said the same things about ego and consciousness...only differently.

See how the use of words and language, build barriers, distorting what it is that people are trying to say??
Words can't describe our theories they can only point to them.

Whereas REAL understanding comes directly from SEE-in from the heart of intuition, it is a feeling, a knowing.

So the question remains then .. why do you believe that we shouldn't say ...

Quote....'' Mel...I don't think we should say that if someone
does not understand your statements above that they are struck in their (ego) mind and thoughts.''

If we are saying the same things differently in the previous discussion.

Applogies if i am confusing you anymore than you already confuse me???

Peace
mel.

[ggullet]

"If there is no time in the Universe how can it have an age?"

We examine parts of the Universe and then give it an age. We like to know the age of something - it gives us somekind of perspective.

So we think we know that the Universe is billions of years old. Cool. But what does billions of years really mean? What does billions of years really feel like?

It immerges that the only thing that is real is this moment... and then this moment. I can think about billions of years, but I will only ever think of them in this moment... and then this moment ...etc.

wadr, I can call a mountain a sea and nothing changes I can still climb it. I can say that the universe is a trizillion years old, that would empower me to believe that just because I said it and I have the most powerful telescope and I have it published for the world to see, that I have dominion over reality, but it still don't make it so. And continuing on that theme, since "time" is relative, how long is a moment? a second, hour, year, lifetime, maybe a trizillion years. until the point of reference of the observer changes all remains essentially the same. enjoy the illusion

[ggullet]

When the mind/body/organism in this duality with it's individuality cease.....similar to the state we are in during deep dreamless sleep.
Then the mind with it's concepts cease...only awareness unaware of itself is aware.

The idea/concept of time 'arises' on contact in consciousness as consciousness comes online...wakes from unconsciousness.

Still that idea/concept of time has ''appeared'' in consciousness, it is a movement in the mind, a mind movement/memory...A mental construct.

All there is.. IS the Absolute ..within which every-thing arises ''out of'' and ''returning into'' like the in-breath and out-breath.

All ''concepts'' including the ''age of the universe'' ''time'' and ''space'' are all known already in consciousness.
All Arising as oneness one without a second.
There is NOTHING outside of that.
All there is IS NOW

Peace.
Mel.

I think your solopsism is starting to show mel. if all there is "IS NOW" than time, motion, aging, etal. are, as the thread states, an illusion. but than again that would also have to include the unconscious as well. I believe "ALL IS"

peace, gg

[melanie]

I think your solopsism is starting to show mel. if all there is "IS NOW" than time, motion, aging, etal. are, as the thread states, an illusion. but than again that would also have to include the unconscious as well. I believe "ALL IS"

peace, gg

''I believe ''ALL IS''

I believe that too but not 2


THIS that perceptions arise in...
Or ..THIS that appears as perceptions... Is not a belief.
But when we speak of it, it seems as if it is.
So, the discussing of nonduality is conceptual - but that to which it points, isn't.



Peace
mel

[ggullet]

''I believe ''ALL IS''

I believe that too but not 2


THIS that perceptions arise in...
Or ..THIS that appears as perceptions... Is not a belief.
But when we speak of it, it seems as if it is.
So, the discussing of nonduality is conceptual - but that to which it points, isn't.



Peace
mel

arise out of belief

[Mikal]

Hi guys...Do we have a right to leave a thread when we see posts beginning to inject inferences that people are intimidators when all that actually happened was someone made a statement concerning the importance of expressing through complex language versus expressing through language which clarifies a thought which could be understood by all viewers?

Blackcrow I would like to leave you two statements about the Ego which maybe you can take to some examination....

1)The esotericism within the particular Mystery tradition of the Orphic Mysteries was focussed on the experiential development of the psycho-spiritual individuality in man's Ego.

2)The word "Ego" is derived from the Egyptian word "Akhu" and concerns the expression of the Spirit of Man falling through an act of self-sacrafice into dualistic states of consciousness in order to someday make a transitional journey to his ego..which is the transitional source of a "sense of knowing."

The above thoughts are from scholar J.S. Gordon, who has invested three decades into understanding the philosophies and mystery traditions of ancient cultures and civilizations. He has also written several books concerning this subject and is well known on the lecture circuit...

I dropped these two thoughts because you see I am not the only one who knows that the idea of the human ego has been misunderstood and miscontrued over the years. I experienced this intra-psychic element within the psyche, it was only after the experience I went to search for any lost truths concerning the truth of what we call the human ego....


Respectfully Mikal

[melanie]

Mikal:

Do we have a right to leave a thread when we see posts beginning to inject inferences that people are intimidators

when all that actually happened was someone made a statement concerning the importance of expressing through complex language versus expressing through language which clarifies a thought which could be understood by all viewers?

The importance of expression that nobody understands verses the importance of expression that we do understand ?

I express in the only way i know how...thankyou.
I'm not expecting anyone to understand it.
Neither do i care.
I'm just here to enjoy myself, and share.
Not to take life so seriously.

I live for today,and that is the only moment that is real and precious.