The Illusion Of Time And Space

[munty13]

This is an idea I've been working on about how the brain's rate of perception infers time and space. It's based on a supposition of 'Tom Burns Bacon'(?), but I'm unaware of the name of it's author.


Time is not inherent to the Universe. A detailed search of the Universe will reveal that there's no such thing as 'time', but only this moment... and this moment....and this moment. Some think of time as being one moment piled up ontop of another moment to create four dimensional space. You can imagine it a bit like a polaroid picture being taken of this present moment and then another being slapped on top, and then another, until eventually a worm-like structure appears. This idea of four dimensional space creates the illusion that time is real, and somehow tangible in the Universe, but it's not. The only place where four dimensional space exists is in the human mind. What really happens with that polaroid as it lands on top of the one below, is that the old picture disappears- it ceases to exist and it's replaced by this moment....and then this moment...

Over 99% of an atom is empty space. In-fact there is hardly any matter whatsoever. The electrons which orbit an atom spin so fast that it enables a mostly empty structure to appear solid to the observer. If we were to shrink ourselves and accelerate our speed of perception, the electrons of that atom would appear to slow down in their orbits. Eventually the atom would become more apparent for its empty space than its solidness, and I can't help but draw on an image of our own solar system to illustrate this (but perhaps another time). What this shows is an inextricable relationship between matter, time and our rate of perception. The rate at which we percieve the spin of an atom designates just how solid (or empty) matter appears to be. Matter is thus revealed as a function of time. Time is created by our rate of perception and is therefore personal to each observer. Time is the product of how we percieve the Universe, and not inherent to the Universe itself.

Time inside an atom is measured in attoseconds. One attosecond is one quillionth of a second. To try and give that some kind of perspective, one attosecond is to one second what one second is to the age of the Universe. One attosecond is the time it takes light to travel the length of 3 hydrogen atoms. 150 attoseconds is the time it takes for an electron to circle the nucleus of an atom. These speeds are unfathomably fast, but only in relation to our rate of perception which is measured in 'yawn' milliseconds. The earliest response to stimuli begins at the cerebellum within 2 ms, whilst the first response of the visual cortex is around 50-70 ms. A full state of arousal of the brain takes around 200 ms. So what we have is a vast, almost unthinkable difference in time scales : one millisecond is one thousandth of a second, but if an attosecond were stretched to the length of a full second, a second would last longer than 31 million years.

If I was to speed up my rate of perception from milliseconds to attoseconds, then the rate at which I drop the next polaroid would slow down. The motion of the Universe would thus slow down BUT the metronome of my thoughts would remain the same. I could have millions and millions of thoughts, one after the other, in the exact same moments where you produce only one thought. If I increased it further, say the speed of light, then I would stop....everything would stop....but only in relation to me; in other words only my experience would have stopped - and not the Universe itself.

[mkirkpatrick]

Munty13,great post,and welcome to the forum,we live and move and have our being within this illusion,and most know it not!



regards michael.

[PoPpAScience]

Hi munty13;

I agree with the illusion of 'time and space', but I also consider 'now' as an illusion also. I see the Universe as a flow of 'infinite proportions'. What I mean by this is that one's perception would have to be infinitely quick, in order to take that snap shot of the flow of "Substance". If we could stop every motion in the Universe, then we could take a snapshot of 'now', but we would have to set it in motion for an 'infinitely' small amount of 'time', and then stop it again, in order to take the next snapshot of 'now'. I find it better to see the Universe as a 'seamless', 'timeless', 'flow', that we perceive as a 'now'(time and space).

[austintorn@aol.com]

The frequency of events coming over the horizon of consciousness is something like 10/44ths of a second.

Time does seem to go faster when one is on the internet, say, than when one is stuck in school.

[Blackcrow]

If time doesn't actually exist then why do we age?

[munty13]

Energy is in motion. You percieve the energy of the Universe in motion. Cells are constantly dying in the body, and new ones are born to replace them. What you are seeing is the body growing older. Forces are acting on the body which give the appearance of growing older.

We apply time to illustrate our lives from the day we are born to the day we die. It enforces the illusion of time. But are we not simply energy in motion? One day we are here, and then one day we are not. One day we will be plant food. The energy of the Universe is in a perpetual state of motion. We are observing, and experiencing this energy in motion.

Four dimensional space exists only in the mind, and not in the Universe itself. If you try to think of an example where time is inherent to the Universe, you may well be stuck there thinking into your old age.

[Blackcrow]

So I'm not actually growing older then, it's just my perception?
I get what you are saying about time being relative to one moment...and the next...and the next and so on but this still doesn't explain my physical appearance or my memory. I don't apply time to my life, time applies itself to my life. One day our physical bodies will be plant food but one day they weren't and the difference between these two events is measurable, no matter how slowly or quickly in relation to light or atomic microspeeds it is still measurable. It has to be otherwise it wouldn't exist. If it exists it is measurable and if it's measurable then it has a start and a finish therefore it takes up a space in existance and history which we measure as time. we measure time in relation to our perception of what is most easily understood by us, ie the rotation of the Earth around the sun.
If we could slow down enough to grasp the moment that exists between moments then I grant that time would stand still and because you say that the universe is a continual motion of these moments then I see that you can say that time stands still in reality and therefore doesn't actually exist. But it has to exist for me to remember stuff. I know the past is gone but I am older than I was therefore I was once younger than I am therefore time exists and does not stand still.

[melanie]

If time doesn't actually exist then why do we age?

The universe or multiverse, is one whole body made up of separate parts.
It is living and dying simultaneously.
In fact, no-thing was ever born and no-thing is dying.

Reality is a rather convincing illusion of the senses.
All there is is awareness, within which ever-thing appears and disappears.

The real true self is imageless, timeless, ageless, absolute eternal awareness.

The 'you' that apparently changes from baby to child to adult to old person is not a separate independent entity,
it is the transient temporal body of the real eternal entity... That of the I AM....the 'you' is the 'I' of the 'AM'

I AM all these ''things'' and I AM none of them.

The AM is observer/awareness of all apparent changing states of the conceptual body..the 'I' but it is not the ''body''...
it is the faceless, ageless, timeless, absolute eternal observer of itself .. ''appearing'' as ''the many'' in relative real time...A reflection of its absolute self.

The illusion of time and motion is a movement in the mind, all movements only ever occur in the timeless stillness of the NOW=(eternal still silent presence)
.. All there is is mind.
Every-thing + every-idea is no-thing other than a mental construct...already known in consciousness.

Every-thing SEEN is an appearance in consciousness.
The surround is conscious... including the idea of a separate 'you'

Times is an illusional appearance appearing in consciousness AS the Observer Observes the body changing states,
the body is the (observed) while the changeless true self awareness(observer)
is changeless, ageless, timeless and motionless...In this conception.

There is not even a hairs breadth between observer and observed it's all one thing.

The 'you' that you believe yourself to be, it an impression, an image appearance of one ''SELF'' 'you' or the 'I' reflect ''ME'' the AM observer.

There was never any separate baby, child, adult ,old person, these are all appearances of the one eternal changeless one.
Experiencing itself in real time.
'we' are the experiencing of the self.

All that you observe on the outside, is the mirror image,
it is the 'I' of the 'AM'
Close your eyes and what do you see, nothing, nothing but 'me' AWARENESS
Open your eyes and that is 'MY' reflection.
I AM that and you are two.
And not even a razors edge separate the two.

It is an impossibility to 'look at' that from which one is in no distance.

This is why the observer can never see it IS the observed.

And so it appears that distance and conceptualization arise and disappear concurrently.


mel.

[munty13]

Hi.

We measure our lives from moment to moment, but it is only in the mind where we join these moments like dot-to dots. Four-dimensional space exists only in the mind.

" I know the past is gone but I am older than I was therefore I was once younger than I am therefore time exists and does not stand still."

It is only us telling ourselves that we are 'getting older'. We think time has passed, but surely it is only a memory of past events. This memory exists only in the mind, and not in the Universe itself.

The energy of the Universe is in constant motion. We can label our experience of the Universe anyway we want - but none of it will ever be an objective truth.

[melanie]

Within the stillness of the mind......awareness looks down at legs, feet on floor, sunlight on trees outside, body breathing, fingers typing ... blink!...

Where is the object?