Sleep, Awake, and Time

[richrf]

Hi all,

What has always fascinated me, was the differences in the manner we perceive time when we are in an awake state vs. a sleep stake. Same body, same brain, different consciousness. For me this is absolutely fascinating, and actually very little about this has ever been discussed in any books or articles I have read. I don't even think Jung ever really delved into this phenomenon. What is even more fascinating, is that instantaneous moment when we move from awake to sleep, and from sleep to awake.

I have read that the state of sleep is very close to the state of death, with some exceptions. But again, given that everyone experiences this switch every day in their lives, I find it the most fascinating aspect of our existence.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Also, I was thinking about starting a thread on Itzhak Bentov and his thoughts (theories). What would be the best forum for this discussion (assuming there is one. ). Thanks.

Rich

[Mikal]

Hi Rich...first of all welcome to the TOE!!

The best discussion I ever read on time while awake versus sleep is in the book Jesus and the Lost Goddess by Timmothy Freke and Peter Gandy. They discussed this phenomena under the title Recognizing the Levels of our Identity.
They stated identity can be distinguished if we examine the three states we inhabit each day; waking, dreaming and deep sleep. In the waking state consciouseness extends its awareness from the centre to the circumference (as comparable to a circle with spokes) experiencing the psyche and the body. In the dream state, we abandon the body and retreat into the psyche or soul. In the deep sleep state we withdraw completely into our essence as nous/pneuma/spirit or consciousness. Paradoxically, in this state of being pure consciousness, because we are not experiencing anything , we are unconscious.
The common sense view of ourselves is that we are bodies which are awake, dreaming or in deep sleep. However, considering our own subjective experience of ourselves, not others experience of us, we are permenently who we are, while the body and psyche come and go.
We are not a physical body that is sometimes conscious, we are consciousness that is sometimes conscious of a body.
I thought this discussion although deeply profound was some remarkable thought, on as you say a remarkable aspect of our existence...

I have alot of interest in Itzhak Bentov and have spent months picking up information about his life and watching videos of his discussions...
There are also other members interested in him. I suppose in one sense he was a philospher so I imagine you probably could start a thread concerning him in the philosopy section.....


Mikal

[richrf]

Hi Rich...first of all welcome to the TOE!!

The best discussion I ever read on time while awake versus sleep is in the book Jesus and the Lost Goddess by Timmothy Freke and Peter Gandy. They discussed this phenomena under the title Recognizing the Levels of our Identity.

Hi Mikal. Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the reference Mikal. I will try to look it up.

They stated identity can be distinguished if we examine the three states we inhabit each day; waking, dreaming and deep sleep.

Interesting that they would distinguish between dreaming and deep sleep. If you are not dreaming then what is happening? Probably something similar to death. I am guessing that death (also no time or space), is very similar, the difference being that we may have better memory of a dream after sleep, than we might have of the awake state after death. Just guessing though. Some people do remember past lives just like some people remember dreams - though some don't.[/quote]

In the waking state consciouseness extends its awareness from the centre to the circumference (as comparable to a circle with spokes) experiencing the psyche and the body.

I would think much more than that. It seems that we extend far beyond the body, into other bodies. I will have to consider their thoughts once I have read more.

In the dream state, we abandon the body and retreat into the psyche or soul.

Interesting phenomenon. Basically no sense of time or space when asleep, so all physicality is gone. What is fascinating is that this switch happens. How? Why? What brings us back into time and space? My guess it is the searching soul. But again, just an hypothesis. Some people, of course, never awake, until ... the next life??

In the deep sleep state we withdraw completely into our essence as nous/pneuma/spirit or consciousness.

To me, it is less a withdrawal, and more simply seeing things without the notion of space and time. Sometimes, I wonder whether space and time are like a canvas for the consciousness to have fun with.

Paradoxically, in this state of being pure consciousness, because we are not experiencing anything , we are unconscious.

Not sure whether or not anything is being experienced. Maybe it is, but we just forget it - because we decide to forget it. Just like the life -> death cycle. To remember something may be different from not experiencing anything. Just some ruminations on the subject. Not really sure about any of it.

The common sense view of ourselves is that we are bodies which are awake, dreaming or in deep sleep.

Possibly. But I think it may be all the same, just differences in the way we perceive the space and time. Just like a sculpture is someone difference from a canvas, though they both may be considered projections of art.

However, considering our own subjective experience of ourselves, not others experience of us, we are permenantly who we are, while the body and psyche come and go.

Yes. Or they are all the result of the same brush and paint which is constantly changing shape - sort of like moving a hand in water and creating different ripples, each having its own form and constantly transforming into another form.

We are not a physical body that is sometimes conscious, we are consciousness that is sometimes conscious of a body.

Or maybe, creating the body, when desired.

I thought this discussion although deeply profound was some remarkable thought, on as you say a remarkable aspect of our existence...

Yes, for me the way time and space comes and goes is pure fascination. We are comfortable when we go to sleep that we will wake up. Does this apply to just the daily sleep, or does this apply to the great awake and sleep of life as well? I have always considered the concept of inherited knowledge, some evidence that there is a bigger cycle of awake and sleep - or birth and death.

I have alot of interest in Itzhak Bentov and have spent months picking up information about his life and watching videos of his discussions...
There are also other members interested in him. I suppose in one sense he was a philospher so I imagine you probably could start a thread concerning him in the philosopy section.....

Great. I will start a discussion there. I find Bentov lots of fun with some great ideas.

Cya,
Rich


Mikal[/quote]