[pattan]

Originally Posted by Ur-bit Hi! To understanding the other impact the discovery of T.O.E. will have on mankind. I’ll ask the reader to accept, one, that there is intelligent life throughout the universe and two, that these intelligent beings have the same built-in natural tendency to explore the unknown, to figure out how things work, change their environment and ask about, ponder the meaning of existence, the curiosity factor. As they walk the path of discovery they will formulate ideas. At first their ideas will be scattered but eventually they will see order and pattern and they will create theories. They will build new theories upon the old theories. Each time the new and latest theory will have a broader range and swallow the previous theories. With each new theory they would acquire a greater and greater understanding of the universe and their place in it. And as we have, they would soon realize there was a potential to discover some sort of ultimate theory, one that would supersede all others. They would eventually find themselves in pursuit of this ultimate theory and they might even call it the Theory of Everything.

Your assumption that other creatures from elsewhere in the universe think like us is already a statement of assignment. Just like saying let x = 2. There after, no matter how you prove it, x will always be equals to 2....and then when you kept proving that x = 2 later, you thought that your theory is definitely correct. Do you know that if you had assigned x = 3 at first, your answers will always be 3 instead of 2?

[Fluent Piffle]

Double post.

[Fluent Piffle]

Originally Posted by MJA Hi, U-b If you simply think the universe is united or one, mathematically unified by =, or that all things including yourself are one, unified, equal universe; you will know the truth of everything and not be alone. If you look elsewhere, taking the path of uncertainty, of measure, of inequity, or division, then isolation is your present and your future. The path of equality is the path to freedom, not of only yourself, but the freedom of everything. Freedom or unity or equality or T.O.E is when you see the universe is one. Have an equal day, MJA

I think this is spot-on, MJA. Probably doesn't matter what symbol we use, because agreement is also One, just a whole thing as opposed to divided thing(s).

Quite simple logic, really.


pif.

[Sentient marine]

Originally Posted by Ur-bit Hi! (snip) So it is that they will one day stand at the crossroads, the pinnacle of all knowledge. Mankind, our civilization is almost there today, soon we’ll step thru the door. A million years ago another civilization stepped through and yesterday in another distant galaxy it will be another civilization. In the immensity of the Cosmos this may happen everyday or once a year or maybe once every million years, it doesn’t really matter. In this way the relentless search for knowledge; an inherent characteristic of all sentient beings, eventually brings us all to this one point, T.O.E. And so T.O.E. becomes the point of convergence for all emerging intelligent civilizations in the Cosmos. You may be thinking this is nothing new, that different people should acknowledge and agree on a single idea and your right! This by itself means almost nothing. So they discover T.O.E. and acquire more knowledge and we discover T.O.E. and acquire more knowledge. (snip)

Very nicely put. But what if there was much, much more to just travelling between time and the tyranny of distance was no longer relevant.

We may be nearly there in some small areas but first we need to be a functional species. A means of travel is just a vehicle and has rules and responsibilities. The principle of medicine "do no harm" is something we have some work to do on yet.

What if our contact with another sentient life form would be totally devastating for it or for us. Would we submit to limited contact regulated by another species because they are fully aware or more fully aware of the rules of contact.

I like to think we are starting still and there is so much to discover, not just what is out there but first and foremost what is the incredible potential within us.

I like to think this way, due to the possibility that we are the first is so remote as to be totally laughable, no disrespect intended. If we were seen as a threat at any time we could be very easily managed.

This is the nub of it, by what means would you control or guide or destroy if required?
I hope destroy is off the list for effective solutions.
By the same token control is such a filthy concept, look at what it has done to our civilizations over the centuries.

That leaves guidance. If distance and even time is no longer a consideration the solution might be so subtle and gentle and well intended as to be beneath our level of awareness.

Imagine just helping or being helped by another older much gentler wiser civilization. One that is fully aware that to let us advance to their level should be carefully managed to ensure harmony. Lets face it humanity is no bed of roses or is it? Beneath so many of our high morals there are some awful thorns and character faults whether individual or as a society.

I suppose I should conclude do we really think we could have advanced this far without some form of gentle assistance. If we found that to be the case, how readily would we continue to accept it, in other words can humanity be helped or ultimately could we be just a lost cause. I like to hope for the best.

Cheers Mike

[MJA]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie "Absolute, ONE, absolute", is impossible of existing... Equality is an absolutely moot point, unless attached/inferred to more than one... Lloyd

I am sorry Lloyd that you are having such difficulty with the freedom of oneness, or nature's truth of equality; unfortunately, you are not alone. Man's history as well as our current state is full of atrocities and inhumanities that the measure of difference has created. Until we understand and practice the unity of equality, those terrible effects of difference will continue. Our salvation as well as the the very life of this planet, our universe, our own lives, is dependent on man's understanding and practice of equality. Equality is the truth that all things are united or one and the same.

A simple example of oneness is the effect man is having on the enviroment. Because we drive cars poluting the air, the penquins in the artic are dying. Man, the enviroment, air, the car, the artic, the penquin, this planet, our universe are united by the effects and truth of nature's oneness. If the penquins are dying, so are we.

The science of physics or more simply the measure of nature spends it's time and energy searching for the certainty of difference, when measure has none. The measure of difference has no certainty, proven by science itself. The measure of equality is the self-evident truth. Beyond the certainty of Newtonian Mechanics, beyond Einstein's Relativity, beyond Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, beyond Bohr's Quantum Mechanics is the science and certainty of Nature,s Oneness of Equality. Once science begins to unite instead of divide, measuring equality instead of difference, our universe will survive and all things will be one. If we are what we are taught, then lessons of equality will unite us and set the universe free. Equality is life, liberty or freedom!

Nature's truth of everything or grand unification is up to you. It is called free will. What you choose, will effect all things. For you and I to unify our thoughts, we must both accept like Einstein before us, that energy and mass are equal, or one and the same. The solution to e=mc2 is =. If you argue e and m are different, you have gone the wrong way.

Best wishes for the wisdom of unity, oneness, and an equal day;
your choice affects us all.

MJA

[Fluent Piffle]

Beneath so many of our high morals there are some awful thorns and character faults whether individual or as a society.

I think an awful lot comes down to this. Neglecting or denying our own responsibilities makes us believe in 'Aliens', 'Gods', or just about anything that will 'help us', when we can only help ourselves...

It is much harder work, to look within and find fault with your own cultural upbringing, and then try to do something about it, than to blame and destroy, externally. The highest authority is Nature, and this is the one we respect the least. (This includes our own internal Natures, hence Mike's very relevant quote, above)


pif.

[Lloyd Gillespie]

Preaching to the choir is what you are attempting MJA, but I'm not in your choir, and never will, or want to be. Try preaching this equality nonsense to the Muslims with H-bombs, when they shortly come ashore... I assure you, this day is coming, and no amount of your preaching equality, to the choir of global stupidity, will stop them. We need more solid facts, to function from, positively... Using an ontic word such as equality, is no different than replacing god with equality, in each place a preacher does use or invoke the ontic word, god. I don't appreciate being preached too, constantly... It's a moot point___Give us some substance, to sink our teeth into...

Lloyd

Originally Posted by MJA I am sorry Lloyd that you are having such difficulty with the freedom of oneness, or nature's truth of equality; unfortunately, you are not alone. Man's history as well as our current state is full of atrocities and inhumanities that the measure of difference has created. Until we understand and practice the unity of equality, those terrible effects of difference will continue. Our salvation as well as the the very life of this planet, our universe, our own lives, is dependent on man's understanding and practice of equality. Equality is the truth that all things are united or one and the same. A simple example of oneness is the effect man is having on the enviroment. Because we drive cars poluting the air, the penquins in the artic are dying. Man, the enviroment, air, the car, the artic, the penquin, this planet, our universe are united by the effects and truth of nature's oneness. If the penquins are dying, so are we. The science of physics or more simply the measure of nature spends it's time and energy searching for the certainty of difference, when measure has none. The measure of difference has no certainty, proven by science itself. The measure of equality is the self-evident truth. Beyond the certainty of Newtonian Mechanics, beyond Einstein's Relativity, beyond Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, beyond Bohr's Quantum Mechanics is the science and certainty of Nature,s Oneness of Equality. Once science begins to unite instead of divide, measuring equality instead of difference, our universe will survive and all things will be one. If we are what we are taught, then lessons of equality will unite us and set the universe free. Equality is life, liberty or freedom! Nature's truth of everything or grand unification is up to you. It is called free will. What you choose, will effect all things. For you and I to unify our thoughts, we must both accept like Einstein before us, that energy and mass are equal, or one and the same. The solution to e=mc2 is =. If you argue e and m are different, you have gone the wrong way. Best wishes for the wisdom of unity, oneness, and an equal day; your choice affects us all. MJA

[Fluent Piffle]

Originally Posted by MJA I am sorry Lloyd that you are having such difficulty with the freedom of oneness, or nature's truth of equality; unfortunately, you are not alone. Man's history as well as our current state is full of atrocities and inhumanities that the measure of difference has created. Until we understand and practice the unity of equality, those terrible effects of difference will continue. Our salvation as well as the the very life of this planet, our universe, our own lives, is dependent on man's understanding and practice of equality. Equality is the truth that all things are united or one and the same. A simple example of oneness is the effect man is having on the enviroment. Because we drive cars poluting the air, the penquins in the artic are dying. Man, the enviroment, air, the car, the artic, the penquin, this planet, our universe are united by the effects and truth of nature's oneness. If the penquins are dying, so are we. The science of physics or more simply the measure of nature spends it's time and energy searching for the certainty of difference, when measure has none. The measure of difference has no certainty, proven by science itself. The measure of equality is the self-evident truth. Beyond the certainty of Newtonian Mechanics, beyond Einstein's Relativity, beyond Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, beyond Bohr's Quantum Mechanics is the science and certainty of Nature,s Oneness of Equality. Once science begins to unite instead of divide, measuring equality instead of difference, our universe will survive and all things will be one. If we are what we are taught, then lessons of equality will unite us and set the universe free. Equality is life, liberty or freedom! Nature's truth of everything or grand unification is up to you. It is called free will. What you choose, will effect all things. For you and I to unify our thoughts, we must both accept like Einstein before us, that energy and mass are equal, or one and the same. The solution to e=mc2 is =. If you argue e and m are different, you have gone the wrong way. Best wishes for the wisdom of unity, oneness, and an equal day; your choice affects us all. MJA

MJA, I think you have a very good understanding of Reality, and a nice approach. Thanks for that.


pif.

[RascalPuff]

Originally Posted by Lloyd Gillespie "Absolute, ONE, absolute", is impossible of existing... Equality is an absolutely moot point, unless attached/inferred to more than one... Lloyd

Universe = 'one verse'.

More than one universe is a non sequitur, unless the term 'multiverse' is somehow specified?

Regards,
- RP

[MJA]

Originally Posted by RascalPuff Universe = 'one verse'. More than one universe is a non sequitur, unless the term 'multiverse' is somehow specified? Regards, - RP

Then: universe =one verse=equal verse=united verse=true verse=nature verse=god verse=just verse=all verse=free verse.

The universe is united equal and one.

Thanks RP
=
MJA